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Clare Baldwin: Navy should help more as they are not doing much actual warfare

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Clare Baldwin: Navy should help more as they are not doing much actual warfare

Old 23rd Jan 2019, 08:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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i don’t believe USCG has ever been part of the Department of Commerce. It was under the Department of Transportation for many years before being moved to Homeland Security
Which means they are not currently being paid.....
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 14:42
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Neither the RNLI or Coast Guard helicopters should be used when dealing with immigrants.
I know from personal experience that "refugees" can be aggressive, have mental issues or are physically ill and have zero respect for female Police Officers.
It shouldn't be the responsibility of unpaid RNLI crews and civilian helicopter crews to undertake work which should be done by Border Force and the Police.
Unfortunately the UK has no alternative but to use the RNLI, Coast Guard helicopters and Royal Navy vessels because Border Force don't have enough vessels and because they are Civil Servants with the Civil Service menality are a poor substitute for Police Officers or a body similiar to the US Coast Guard.

Last edited by A4scooter; 23rd Jan 2019 at 14:45. Reason: Grammer
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 17:41
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Carbon Bootprint View Post
i don’t believe USCG has ever been part of the Department of Commerce. It was under the Department of Transportation for many years before being moved to Homeland Security after 9/11. As you say, it can be placed under the Navy with a Congressional decree.
You are correct.. I miss spoke. USCG become part of Dept of Transportation in 1967, not Dept of Commerce. Mea culpa. However, both Congress and the President have the authority to move the Coast Guard into the US Navy.

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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 18:33
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Blimey, itís almost like the UK is trying to police itís shores on the cheap. No doubt someone in government has worked out itís cheaper to let them come ashore and give them a council house than to actually pay for a force to defend our shores.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 18:52
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A4scooter View Post
Neither the RNLI or Coast Guard helicopters should be used when dealing with immigrants.
I know from personal experience that "refugees" can be aggressive, have mental issues or are physically ill and have zero respect for female Police Officers.
It shouldn't be the responsibility of unpaid RNLI crews and civilian helicopter crews to undertake work which should be done by Border Force and the Police.
Unfortunately the UK has no alternative but to use the RNLI, Coast Guard helicopters and Royal Navy vessels because Border Force don't have enough vessels and because they are Civil Servants with the Civil Service menality are a poor substitute for Police Officers or a body similiar to the US Coast Guard.
Ok, I'll bite on this one! Re behaviours that might be experienced with 'refugees' - agreed, but so were some of the people we assisted when I used to be a lifeboat crewman way, way back. Not many, but it happened. Usually in the summer and when drink or other psychotropic substances had been consumed.
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Old 23rd Jan 2019, 22:12
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
A4scooter,

Oh come on! Talk about demonising refugees! Did you see the TV footage of the dead baby washed up on the shores of the Med? Or the terrified 4 year old girl being handed up to a rescuer from a sinking boat? These are desperate people who have suffered a lot to get as far as they have got. Calling them 'refugees' as you do is disingenuous and frankly appalling!

WEBF/Hunterboy,

Actually the UK Border Force has NINE vessels, it has 4 32 Ton Coastal Patrol Vessels in addition to the 5 Cutters, each of which also carry a RIB and a Rescue Boat.

As to your throw away nonsense about Council Housing, I guess you have no idea what these folk go through do you?
I did not mention Council Housing and am not of the "let them drown - machine gun them" view that sadly is expressed. I was merely trying to answer KenV's question about responsibility for SAR, maritime safety, maritime law enforcement, etc.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 04:51
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Proone, you are right, it was a throw away line to chuck into the debate. Not a go at refugees , but our disfunctional governement policies. Out of interest, how many of these 9 vessels are at sea at any one time? How many sq km is each boat expected to patrol? No doubt budget limited to the amount of fuel they can use a month. So we have border /coastal security subject to budgetary constraints? If that is the case, why bother?
‘Why not, open our borders, let refugees work , but change the rules to look after people that contribute to the system first, as does the rest of the EU and USA.
I stand by my assertion, that the UK is relying on good luck , good will and charity to achieve what many other countries have a Navy and/or Coastguard do.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 09:06
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Don't the RN still have a dozen or so patrol vessels at University Royal Naval Units? Perhaps a meaningful deployment for them?
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 09:45
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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The URNUs have a total allocation of 14 Archer class fast patrol boats, which form No.1 Patrol Boat Squadron.

They look rather fun - and the URNUs remain something of a secret compared to the OTC and UAS. Little flying at a UAS these days and eating mud in the OTC probably has a limited appeal. Whereas wazzing about in 54 ton patrol boats....
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 09:45
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
A4scooter,

Oh come on! Talk about demonising refugees! Did you see the TV footage of the dead baby washed up on the shores of the Med? Or the terrified 4 year old girl being handed up to a rescuer from a sinking boat? These are desperate people who have suffered a lot to get as far as they have got. Calling them 'refugees' as you do is disingenuous and frankly appalling!

WEBF/Hunterboy,

Actually the UK Border Force has NINE vessels, it has 4 32 Ton Coastal Patrol Vessels in addition to the 5 Cutters, each of which also carry a RIB and a Rescue Boat.

As to your throw away nonsense about Council Housing, I guess you have no idea what these folk go through do you?
If the so called refugees are in such dire straits as you imply, why did they not seek asylum in the first safe country iaw the Dublin Accord?
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 12:19
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
A4scooter,

Oh come on! Talk about demonising refugees! Did you see the TV footage of the dead baby washed up on the shores of the Med? Or the terrified 4 year old girl being handed up to a rescuer from a sinking boat? These are desperate people who have suffered a lot to get as far as they have got. Calling them 'refugees' as you do is disingenuous and frankly appalling!

WEBF/Hunterboy,

Actually the UK Border Force has NINE vessels, it has 4 32 Ton Coastal Patrol Vessels in addition to the 5 Cutters, each of which also carry a RIB and a Rescue Boat.

As to your throw away nonsense about Council Housing, I guess you have no idea what these folk go through do you?
I have a lot of sympathy for genuine refugees and wouldn't want anyone to die while crossing the channel whatever their circumstances and I take offence at the "Council House" remark as I am not that person.
It iis still doesn't make it acceptable for the authorities knowingly putting volunteers and civilians in danger because enforcement agencies have no resourses

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Old 24th Jan 2019, 14:47
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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racingrigger,

The VAST majority of them do.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 14:47
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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hunterboy,

Fair enough, I see what you are getting at and can't really disagree.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 15:16
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
racingrigger,

The VAST majority of them do.
You may be right that the vast majority seek asylum elsewhere, but according to my paper there are approx another 3,000 asylum seekers scattered around northern France waiting to try their luck.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:06
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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I would have thought the poor wretches trying to get to the UK would be best advised to stay put in France! Haven't they heard of Brexit and what's going to happen to us!
FB
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 16:11
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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As to your throw away nonsense about Council Housing, I guess you have no idea what these folk go through do you?
As with all things in life, THEY HAVE A CHOICE.
Fleeing from France is not putting ones life in ones hands because they are being persecuted and thus they are then endangering others lives who have to try to rescue them,.

Its the bloody doogooders that were picking them up a mile or so off the coast of the likes of Libya then transporting them to Italy etc and doing the people smugglers work for them I blame.
I would have returned them straight to Libya, all that does is encourage people to attempt in even less seaworthy boats as they know they only have to reach a couple of miles out.

You don't pay these guys thousands to get dumped back at square one and then it will not take long for it to start to get around that you are wasting your cash.


..

Last edited by NutLoose; 25th Jan 2019 at 09:30.
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Old 24th Jan 2019, 20:08
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Absolutely bang-on.
It is amazing that such an obvious truth is seemingly beyond our leaders.
Truly amazing.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 08:24
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Well said Nutloose. And currently many of them are not fleeing persecution they are economic migrants. If claiming asylum they should be dealt with in the first "free" country they reach, not to be encouraged to seek the yellow brick road in UK
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 09:23
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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Finally sense is prevailing and they agree with me

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...eal/ar-BBSHvkH

Sajid Javid has signed a new deal with his French counterpart to return migrants who illegally cross the Channel back to France.The agreement saw the first handful of migrants returned yesterday and is part of a new action plan which is backed by £6m extra money from the UK government. It was announced yesterday after the Home Secretary met French interior minister Christophe Castaner in London.The French have agreed they will take back migrants who have been fingerprinted on the so-called Eurodac database. This enables immigration officers to establish if they have already applied for asylum in an EU country or illegally transited through other EU states.
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Old 25th Jan 2019, 09:38
  #40 (permalink)  

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This enables immigration officers to establish if they have already applied for asylum in an EU country or illegally transited through other EU states.
Surely one or the other must be true if they rock up in the Channel heading for UK.....?
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