Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Boeing wins T-X

Old 27th Sep 2018, 21:41
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Brum
Posts: 758
Boeing wins T-X

Boeing has won T-X

A Boeing-Saab partnership has won a $9.2 billion contract to produce the U.S. Air Force’s next-generation training jet.
Boeing’s award for the T-X trainer program marks the third major victory by the company in about a month, following an $805 million contract to build the Navy’s first four MQ-25 unmanned tankers, and a contract worth up to $2.38 billion to manufacture the Air Force’s Huey replacement helicopter.

Nige321 is online now  
Old 27th Sep 2018, 22:59
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 19,228


call me old fashioned but does that not look like the Scorpion, but probably costs three times as much.

https://scorpion.txtav.com/



NutLoose is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2018, 09:58
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: West of Suez
Posts: 289
Originally Posted by NutLoose View Post

call me old fashioned but does that not look like the Scorpion, but probably costs three times as much.

https://scorpion.txtav.com/
Call me a cynic, but isn't that how military procurement is meant to work. Licence to print money innit. If you get a decent bit of kit at the end, that's a bonus.
AnglianAV8R is offline  
Old 28th Sep 2018, 10:10
  #4 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,309
Indeed. Apart from the aerodynamics, role, wing, tail, fuselage, avionics and number of engines, it does look similar.
ORAC is online now  
Old 29th Sep 2018, 21:24
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,081
Official USAF PR here - first delivery 2023 - IOC 2024 - FOC 2034.
$9.2B for 351 aircraft, 46 simulators and all associated ground equipment (more than $10B less than original estimate).
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Disp...omber-trainer/
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 29th Sep 2018, 21:50
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 1,081
Boeing videos:

https://www.boeing.com/defense/t-x/i...-u-s-air-force

https://www.boeing.com/defense/t-x/i...burner-takeoff

https://www.boeing.com/defense/t-x/i...-x-sustainment

https://www.boeing.com/defense/t-x/i...cockpit-reveal
RAFEngO74to09 is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 07:36
  #7 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Lincolnshire
Age: 77
Posts: 16,744
Originally Posted by ORAC View Post
Indeed. Apart from the aerodynamics, role, wing, tail, fuselage, avionics and number of engines, it does look similar.
You mean like the FD2 and the Mirage?
Pontius Navigator is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 08:31
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 68
A step up from the Talon and the Hawk by a country mile..
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 09:45
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
TBM-Legend

I’m afraid I do not know your background but comments such as that appear to miss the mark somewhat.

Before disparaging an aircraft you must consider it’s role.

The USAF want a trainer not a multi role fighter. It is a beautiful jet and will obviously kick the Talon or Hawk’s arse in BFM but so what?

As a FJ QFI I want a jet that is easy to handle, has good visibility from the back seat (for approach and landing as well not just in the upper air), has ample fuel and is reliable.

In this regard the Talon doesn’t cut it for me, the Alphajet has terrible rear seat visibility and the 346 runs out of fuel far too quickly. The Hawk is the best thing out there currently IN ITS ROLE.

I know all about the requirements for TX and how each performed. It was always going to be a two horse race between the T50 and the Boeing. Lockheed already have JSF so my money was on the Boeing all along.

As a pilot I think it looks awesome and would love to fly it and for DACT it would probably top the list but I will reserve judgment as to how it is as an instructional platform.

I doubt very much if DACT will ever be on the syllabus so like versus like who cares if it can sustain 6G at 10000’?!

Just my take on things of course.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 11:07
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NSW
Posts: 68
BV, don't take life so seriously. Both the Hawk and Talon fulfilled their roles very effectively however aviation moves on and I'm sure the USAF evaluation team were experienced in this area and it was not just bought because of company preferences. The USAF needed a supersonic capable trainer. It's noteworthy that the USN doesn't! Different training philosophies prevail. My basic training was on the Winjeel flat-out down hill at 130kts vs. the RAAF today are introducing the Pilatus PC21 ...370 kts all day..
TBM-Legend is offline  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 11:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Near the coast
Posts: 1,910
TBM

Thanks for keeping me grounded.

I’m not convinced that your Winjeel comparison is quite the same thing though. I am talking about current training platforms. And when I talk about Hawk and Talon I’m talking about the latest versions of each.

BV
Bob Viking is online now  
Old 30th Sep 2018, 12:49
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London
Age: 64
Posts: 381
I think Airbus should protest the decision, get the DoD to move the goalposts in their favour and then submit a new design. To get round the Donald's trade war, the next step would be to have the Chinese build it under licence at an airfield in Wyoming or Utah. All costings to be in Papua New Guinean Kina to avoid any accusations of state subsidies.
Fortissimo is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2018, 03:28
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Washington.
Age: 71
Posts: 622
Originally Posted by TBM-Legend View Post
A step up from the Talon and the Hawk by a country mile..
Well, a step up from a 60+ year old design is quite an achievement, I suppose. But let's see if it ever has a service record nearly as superb as that beautiful airplane which captured the hearts of countless young Air Force pilots. It here ever was a Hall of Fame for such things, it would certainly have a conspicuous place.
GlobalNav is offline  
Old 1st Oct 2018, 05:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,309
That’s one hell of a price. If you take out a reasonable percentage for the simulators and ground equipment etc, I make that about $16-18M per aircraft, of which about $4M is for the F404 engine. No wonder LM and the Koreans are saying they couldn’t get near the price.

Cant help thinking Boeing expect to lose a lot of money on the deal, both in the hope of substantial overseas sales and as the price of keeping the FJ design teams together (along with Saab of course).
ORAC is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2019, 06:41
  #15 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,309
https://www.snafu-solomon.com/2019/0...-red-hawk.html





Acting Secretary of the Air Force Matthew Donovan announces the T- 7A “Red Hawk” during the Air, Space and Cyber conference at the National Harbor.

The name, Red Hawk, honors the legacy of Tuskegee Airmen, and pays homage to their signature red-tailed aircraft from World War II. The name is also a tribute to the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk, an American fighter aircraft that first flew in 1938 and was flown by the 99th Fighter Squadron, the U.S. Army Air Forces’ first African American fighter squadron.

The P-51 and P-40 are some of the most iconic fighters of their time. Likewise, the T-7A will be the staple of a new generation of aircraft.

The Red Hawk offers advanced capabilities for training tomorrow’s pilots on data links, simulated radar, smart weapons, defensive management systems, as well as synthetic training capabilities. The first T-7A aircraft and simulators are scheduled to arrive at Joint Randolph AFB, Texas, in 2023 as a replacement for the venerable T- 38C. And, the moniker “Red Hawk” is certainly fitting, as that species of raptor is often seen soaring over our pilot training bases.
ORAC is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2019, 10:36
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Up the creek
Posts: 49
Did T-X design get inspiration from a supersonic home built jet? Its larger but looks very similar to the BD-10.


Wingless Walrus is offline  
Old 17th Sep 2019, 20:13
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NEW YORK
Posts: 971
Originally Posted by Wingless Walrus View Post
Hope not, a senior corporate type I knew got seriously hurt in one of those gizmos. They were not a forgiving design.
etudiant is online now  
Old 17th Sep 2019, 22:21
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Washington.
Age: 71
Posts: 622
That fancy name will probably last as long as Thunderbolt II (AKA Wart Hog), Lancer (AKA Bone), Falcon (AKA Viper). and so on.
GlobalNav is offline  
Old 23rd Feb 2021, 17:19
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Alps
Posts: 2,457
Production tested

production started

chopper2004 is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2021, 09:10
  #20 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Peripatetic
Posts: 11,309
https://boeing.mediaroom.com/news-re...ts?item=130830

Boeing Begins T-7A Red Hawk Advanced Trainer Production
ORAC is online now  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.