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Reasons to like France

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Reasons to like France

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Old 18th Sep 2018, 07:40
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Reasons to like France

While traveling up from the south, I’ve been feeling quite nostalgic for the fifties and sixties when we still had an aiforce that had some money for fuel. Most days in most regions I’ve heard and seen lovely flights of fast jets tonking around the shop. My breakfast this morning was to the music of jets at full chat off to play in the Jura, I guess with other chaps. Couldn’t see them but it took me back to my youth in places like Norfolk and Suffolk.


I don’t know how many hours you get a month now. I’m told that it isn’t so much. What ever happens politically, I devoutly hope that we, as a nation, will realise that there is no substitute for hours in the cockpit.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 08:22
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Originally Posted by effortless
I devoutly hope that we, as a nation, will realise that there is no substitute for hours in the cockpit.
Quite, simulators might behave exactly like the aircraft but that is no guarantee that the aircraft will behave exactly like the sim.

The Sim can't kill you, the aircraft can.
You can see the result of firing at a target in the Sim. There is no guarantee the the real target will behave the same way. Or that a missile will launch as intended.

Sims work well as procedure and systems trainers but are no substitute.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 08:40
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Whilst I love France and seeing jets wazzing around...
Conversely there are things that a sim does better than the aircraft, par example;
Emergency training where the simulated emergency would be too dangerous to practice in the real aircraft and
Weapon firing (thinking complex here not guns) with a dynamic target(s) in a complex scenario which is not possible in a range environment.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:01
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3 reasons

Patrouille de France display directly over our campsite in northern Brittany
Pair of Rafales low over our campsite in a Dordogne valley
Pair of Rafales low over the sea along the Finisterre coast
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:07
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Sims do not help the logistics or engineering chains: modelling of failures is not a reliable way to find out how to fix your jets expeditiously when you're not at your MOB.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 09:24
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Sims have a valuable role to play, but their key drawback is unavoidable; they can only represent the expected. All of the software models how we expect the aircraft/ weapon / opponent / etc / etc to behave. Whilst the models no doubt represent our best assessment of what will happen in a given combination of circumstances, they are by definition framed by our pre existing expectations. In other words there are no surprises, whereas in real life, experience tells us that surprises are still plentiful!
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 12:16
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Rafales over our campsite in the Dordogne this summer, wonderful sound and sight!
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 12:33
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Used to love our "training" weekends to Lorient and Nimes. Great times in lovely places.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 12:47
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As well as the undoubted reduction in numbers and flying hours the lack of “sight and sound” of jets is because low level as a tactic is thouroughly out of fashion in the U.K.
Maybe the French have a different view.... or maybe, being French, they just keep doing it because it’s more fun

Last edited by Timelord; 18th Sep 2018 at 13:02.
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Old 18th Sep 2018, 14:58
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They are pretty high level at the moment. Can only hear them and see pretty patterns at high level. Guess they are from St Dizier.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 03:17
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Reasons to like France - cheese, wine, Paris 40 years ago, and the Mirage 50. But that’s just me.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 05:22
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The Mirage IV.
A stonking great 1960's streamlined hulk of a jet - and beautiful in it's silver incarnation.
Just the thing you could imagine delivering the fin du monde.
A proper croissant dipped in a bol of milky coffee at a streetside cafe in the 3rd, while gazing wistfully at those french girls who were utterly unobtainable because one's french was complete merde...
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 06:58
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My first North Sea ACMI hop was a 1 v 2 against French Mirage 2000 RDY Mica firers. I was a student, the French wingy was new to the frontline. It was getting dark. The French #1 suggested that their VID profile practice move from serial 3 to serial 1. It was inky by the time we merged - and I remember the delta planform as it passed (just!) over my canopy like it was yesterday.
Some leaders would have called it a day at that point - but my French mates and I knocked out a couple more sets. First time I’d flown with IRCM too - they looked great in the twilight. Have a feeling I used far more of them than my new mates!
Ah, the days of high adventure, sadly now in the past.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 07:42
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I know its doesn't directly impact on ops or operational flying ability, but IMHO the French Armee de L'air Rafale display is probably the best fast jet flying display in Europe, with the Couteau Delta Mirages and Aeronautique Navale Rafale M's not too far behind.

.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 09:11
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If we are reminiscing; posted to Istres as a 20 year old in 1957.

Discovering I'sle de l'Reunion as a 55 year old and going back 4 more times.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 14:38
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Originally Posted by ian16th
If we are reminiscing; posted to Istres as a 20 year old in 1957.
The Mirage 2000N has been phased out at Istres recently and they are now working up to replace it with the Rafale. One tore a hole in the overhead half an hour ago as it skipped over the Luberon. There ended the wifes siesta!

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Old 19th Sep 2018, 14:39
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Originally Posted by switch_on_lofty
Weapon firing (thinking complex here not guns) with a dynamic target(s) in a complex scenario which is not possible in a range environment.
Systems have developed to the extent that simply dropping practice bombs is no practise at all. The latest jets now need off-range targets in the same way as the V-Force. No reason now why RAF jets could not return to French airspace for off-range targets.
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 14:43
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
off-range targets.
Does Swindon qualify? 🤔 🙏 🙀
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Old 19th Sep 2018, 15:18
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Reasons to like France?
3 years at FAF Cognac on 315GE instructing in French on both Epsilon and Magister alongside Air Force and Naval aviators both commissioned and non-commissioned.
Amazement at watching a QFI consume half a bottle of wine and then sit behind him in the Magister as he slipped into the box of a mixed formation 9 ship flypast for change of Base Commander. The wonderful use of the third person indefinite so as to avoid attributing responsibility (as one of my students admitted, On est un con.) I had a ball!!
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 04:06
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The Mirage IV.
A stonking great 1960's streamlined hulk of a jet - and beautiful in it's silver incarnation.
Just the thing you could imagine delivering the fin du monde.
tartare's comment made me look up the Mirage IV. Although I was aware that it was a bomber, I hadn't appreciated quite how big it was!

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