Battle of Britain Day
Agreed. Sadly too the Battle of Britain service in Westminster Abbey on Sunday has been cancelled.
Later today I will go down to the parish church in Woodmansey near Beverley to pay my respects at the grave of one of the fallen. Sgt Leslie Pidd was only 22 when his 238 Sqn Hurricane was shot down by Me110's near Kenley and his parachute failed to open, 15th Sept 1940.
Lest we forget.
Lest we forget.
Wings Appeal
Appeal
Hi Biker, Wings Day long ago morphed into Wings Appeal, my RAFA branch usually holds up to 4 collection days a year in various locations, usually public events or at supermarkets. We should have been at a local Tesco's this weekend but the store cancelled out of respect for the Queen. Our tally so far this year is nearing £3000
Hi Biker, Wings Day long ago morphed into Wings Appeal, my RAFA branch usually holds up to 4 collection days a year in various locations, usually public events or at supermarkets. We should have been at a local Tesco's this weekend but the store cancelled out of respect for the Queen. Our tally so far this year is nearing £3000
FODPlod (#63),
At the time, I would think that almost all our available destroyers and frigates would be fully committed to the Western Approaches defence, and to convoy escort duties. Churchill was only too glad to concede land rights in a number of British possessions on the Eastern seaboard to the US in exchange for 50 WWI obsolete coal-burning destroyers to help in the fight.
..."equipped with small and medium calibre guns"... They'd be lucky ! At ITW as late as summer '41, I learned "armaments" with an (obsolete) Vickers G.O. gun - as all the Brownings were needed in service. I mounted guard with a "pick-helve" - as the "Local Defence Volunteers" (later the "Home Guard") had had to do in 1940.
..."and able to produce a wake"... You mean a repeat of the Dunkirk: "Day of the Little Ships" ? Well, even if it could be laid on again (and you would need guns (if any) and mountings fitted (which would need time, and who would work the guns ?) the Me 109s, 110s and Stukas should have litle difficulty in polishing them off (we are assuming the RAF, defeated, is no longer there).
The truth is: we do not know what might have happened, and it is pointless to speculate. We only know what actually happened - the RAF won ! (and we are all speaking English still).
At the time, I would think that almost all our available destroyers and frigates would be fully committed to the Western Approaches defence, and to convoy escort duties. Churchill was only too glad to concede land rights in a number of British possessions on the Eastern seaboard to the US in exchange for 50 WWI obsolete coal-burning destroyers to help in the fight.
..."equipped with small and medium calibre guns"... They'd be lucky ! At ITW as late as summer '41, I learned "armaments" with an (obsolete) Vickers G.O. gun - as all the Brownings were needed in service. I mounted guard with a "pick-helve" - as the "Local Defence Volunteers" (later the "Home Guard") had had to do in 1940.
..."and able to produce a wake"... You mean a repeat of the Dunkirk: "Day of the Little Ships" ? Well, even if it could be laid on again (and you would need guns (if any) and mountings fitted (which would need time, and who would work the guns ?) the Me 109s, 110s and Stukas should have litle difficulty in polishing them off (we are assuming the RAF, defeated, is no longer there).
The truth is: we do not know what might have happened, and it is pointless to speculate. We only know what actually happened - the RAF won ! (and we are all speaking English still).
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I'm afraid that Danny42C is regretfully no longer with us so will not be replying (by posting, anyway) to you. I would heartily commend the sticky thread above,
Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
permanently (well, as permanent as anything is in this imperfect world) held over in his honour, and those previous to him who have also slipped the surly bonds of earth. Danny (the '42C was his entry number in BFTS Florida) had one advantage none of us have, he was there (in a blitzed Liverpool at the time as it happens). As he rightly said, we know what happened, what we don't know is what didn't happen (a known unknown?). So you pays yer money and makes yer choice. As to RV Jones, he wasn't privy to Ultra at the time, AFAIK, and in any case absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. The Kriegsmarine were notable in being far more Opsec conscious than the other two German Services, witness their use of the 4-wheel Enigma. It may well have been wary of the RN and was right to be so, but the RN was equally wary of it, of both its capital ships and U-boats. Narvik was but a pinprick in comparison, though rightly cheered British hearts at the time.
This is all a well trodden path that many choose to keep treading. So be it. All I ask is that you don't call upon Herman Goering as witness for the prosecution. He did valiant service on behalf of Fighter Command, and we bagged him first!
At the end of the day we are all entitled to our own ideas and prejudices. I cheerfully admit mine!
Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
permanently (well, as permanent as anything is in this imperfect world) held over in his honour, and those previous to him who have also slipped the surly bonds of earth. Danny (the '42C was his entry number in BFTS Florida) had one advantage none of us have, he was there (in a blitzed Liverpool at the time as it happens). As he rightly said, we know what happened, what we don't know is what didn't happen (a known unknown?). So you pays yer money and makes yer choice. As to RV Jones, he wasn't privy to Ultra at the time, AFAIK, and in any case absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. The Kriegsmarine were notable in being far more Opsec conscious than the other two German Services, witness their use of the 4-wheel Enigma. It may well have been wary of the RN and was right to be so, but the RN was equally wary of it, of both its capital ships and U-boats. Narvik was but a pinprick in comparison, though rightly cheered British hearts at the time.
This is all a well trodden path that many choose to keep treading. So be it. All I ask is that you don't call upon Herman Goering as witness for the prosecution. He did valiant service on behalf of Fighter Command, and we bagged him first!
At the end of the day we are all entitled to our own ideas and prejudices. I cheerfully admit mine!
Oh, I'll trot out my story ( again!)
Among a group of others I was Commissioned out of the Towers on 15 Sep 1969.
This coincided with the Premiere of the film 'Battle of Britain" to which some of us were invited to the Nottingham event as APO's
There were some spare tickets.
One of our number went down to the flight line to see if any of our more senior instructors might like to come along.to see the film
I loved one comment:
"No thanks, if you don't mind,.......... being in the play was quite enough for me! ."
Among a group of others I was Commissioned out of the Towers on 15 Sep 1969.
This coincided with the Premiere of the film 'Battle of Britain" to which some of us were invited to the Nottingham event as APO's
There were some spare tickets.
One of our number went down to the flight line to see if any of our more senior instructors might like to come along.to see the film
I loved one comment:
"No thanks, if you don't mind,.......... being in the play was quite enough for me! ."
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Thread Starter
Battle of Britain Day
Happy 83rd BoB Anniversary RAF! What Goering hilariously called a draw was instead a disastrous strategic defeat for Germany. We stayed in the war, which led directly to the liberation of Western Europe and the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany. If we sued for peace instead it's anybody's guess as to our fate, Europe's fate, the World's fate? Under the KGB or the Gestapo? Little difference when they come for you at 03:00 hrs.
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The Few - Battle of Britain Day - 15th September 2023
Since this historic day in 1940, the Battle of Britain is remembered annually on 15th September. This year marks the 83rd anniversary.
On the 20 August 1940, during the high point of the Battle of Britain, Churchill addressed the House of Commons, the Country, and the Empire, to outline the war situation.
In the middle of that long speech, he created the famous nickname for the RAF fighter pilots involved in the battle: "The Few"
Aircrew
Pilots scrambled during the Battle of Britain, 1940.
William Vandivert The LIFE Picture Collection/Shutterstock
Ground crew
Between flights, a member of the ground crew sat in the shade of his plane’s wing. See the emergency starter apparatus was at his feet, already hooked up
William Vandivert The LIFE Picture Collection/Shutterstock
On the 20 August 1940, during the high point of the Battle of Britain, Churchill addressed the House of Commons, the Country, and the Empire, to outline the war situation.
In the middle of that long speech, he created the famous nickname for the RAF fighter pilots involved in the battle: "The Few"
Aircrew
Pilots scrambled during the Battle of Britain, 1940.
William Vandivert The LIFE Picture Collection/Shutterstock
Ground crew
Between flights, a member of the ground crew sat in the shade of his plane’s wing. See the emergency starter apparatus was at his feet, already hooked up
William Vandivert The LIFE Picture Collection/Shutterstock
Last edited by Deep Throat; 15th Sep 2023 at 11:00.
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Happy 83rd BoB Anniversary RAF! What Goering hilariously called a draw was instead a disastrous strategic defeat for Germany. We stayed in the war, which led directly to the liberation of Western Europe and the ultimate defeat of Nazi Germany. If we sued for peace instead it's anybody's guess as to our fate, Europe's fate, the World's fate? Under the KGB or the Gestapo? Little difference when they come for you at 03:00 hrs.
Which according to Geoff Wellums book (First light) was also about the time that our pilots were 'awakened' by an orderly with tea and a pencil to confirm you had been 'summoned' for the first readiness. No wonder they wanted to sleep when they got to dispersals and those classic Lloyd loom chairs.
A turning point in world history and democracy that will always endure, and judging by the rising numbers of airworthy Hurricanes and Spitfires, that moment in time is not being lost. RAF Kenley still under 'MOD' control, the only 11 group sector airfield** surviving in near wartime condition other than a stupid fence on its peri- track.
** never upgraded for jets (no space to increase runway length)
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Gentleman Aviator
What Goering hilariously called a draw
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The 83rd!
Keeping the memory alive, giving thanks for the sacrifices made.
Keeping the memory alive, giving thanks for the sacrifices made.
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Speaking of Kenley, this is a "Man Alive" documentary of a 501 Squadron reunion there around 1969.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/man-al...he-few/zrrjgwx
https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/man-al...he-few/zrrjgwx
Hugh Dowding, C-in-C Fighter Command, born Scotland
Quintin Brand, AOC 10 Group, born Cape Colony, transferred from Union Defence force to RFC in 1915
Keith Park, AOC 11 Group, born New Zealand. NZEF (as part of 4th Howitzer Battery participated in the landing at ANZAC cove) transferred to RH&FA in 1915
Trafford Leigh-Mallory,AOC 12 Group, born England
Richard Saul, AOC 13 Group, born Ireland
Quite a few Canadians came over, IIRC, and a few Americans went to Canada to join up and eventually help out in the RAF
Well done RAF, 83 years ago. *Hand Salute*
(I saw the film in 70 or 71 at a NAAFI theater. Memorable)
Spoiler
(I saw the film in 70 or 71 at a NAAFI theater. Memorable)
No mention of England in the start of this thread.
Thanks to all who stood up to Hitler, and especially on this day for victory in the skies, even if it did not yet seem like a victory for quite some time.
Thanks to all who stood up to Hitler, and especially on this day for victory in the skies, even if it did not yet seem like a victory for quite some time.
No, indeed - I was referring to a subsequent reply. I completely agree with your second point.