Su-27 airshow crash
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Su-27 airshow crash
Horrendous accident in Ukraine. Su-27 cartwheeled into crowd during airshow, up to 40 fatalities being reported.
Hoped this wouldn't happen again after Ramstein.
Hoped this wouldn't happen again after Ramstein.
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Nasty accident. It looks as though up to 60 people are feared dead now.
The aircraft appeared to pull out of a series of manouvres too late and clipped tree's and aircraft on the ground before cartwheeling through the crowd in a fireball. The pilots managed to eject.
Very nasty. Condolences to those affected.
BM.
The aircraft appeared to pull out of a series of manouvres too late and clipped tree's and aircraft on the ground before cartwheeling through the crowd in a fireball. The pilots managed to eject.
Very nasty. Condolences to those affected.
BM.
Appalling accident.
What happened? It would appear that in a high G manoeuvre, something happened which caused what looks from the videotape like a departure in roll to the left. Imagery of the flight immediately beforehand seems to show brown smoke trailing from the port engine. Certainly if there was a catastrophic failure of the port engine at high G and low IAS, a departure as evidenced would be highly likely. Post departure recovery action by the crew seems to have been effective initially, with the ac being flown at high G in an attempt to avoid hitting the ground but also with significant yaw - which could have been the result of the port engine being unable to develop sufficient thrust to allow the ac to accelerate sufficiently to avoid the accident whilst the starboard was at full thrust.
Condolences to all involved.
What happened? It would appear that in a high G manoeuvre, something happened which caused what looks from the videotape like a departure in roll to the left. Imagery of the flight immediately beforehand seems to show brown smoke trailing from the port engine. Certainly if there was a catastrophic failure of the port engine at high G and low IAS, a departure as evidenced would be highly likely. Post departure recovery action by the crew seems to have been effective initially, with the ac being flown at high G in an attempt to avoid hitting the ground but also with significant yaw - which could have been the result of the port engine being unable to develop sufficient thrust to allow the ac to accelerate sufficiently to avoid the accident whilst the starboard was at full thrust.
Condolences to all involved.
Last edited by BEagle; 27th Jul 2002 at 16:27.
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These things do happen. When you go to an air show you accept an element of risk. But why was the manoeuvre performed heading towards the spectators? This takes us back to John Derry and the DH110 at Farnborough in 194? where I was a very shaken young spectator on "the mound". After which disaster the rules for display flying were tightened up. Well not really - they were written for the first time. Condolences to the nearest and dearest of the deceased. And sympathies to the crew who banged out successfully and have got to live with this catastrophe.
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Flatus, it looked like the manoeuvre was planned to be parallel to the crowd but the yaw BEagle describes meant that the aircraft ended up in the wrong place. The pilots must be in hell.
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FV, our paths must have crossed that terrible day in 1952, when I also was present as a spotty uniformed youth.
As a group we were all rounded up after the accident and pressed into service as crowd control marshalls.
It was a VERY long day and night before we boarded our coach and returned to the wilds of Buckinghamshire.
In retrospect it might be a good idea for all high performance display pilots and organisers to have a compulsory viewing of such a disaster.
As a group we were all rounded up after the accident and pressed into service as crowd control marshalls.
It was a VERY long day and night before we boarded our coach and returned to the wilds of Buckinghamshire.
In retrospect it might be a good idea for all high performance display pilots and organisers to have a compulsory viewing of such a disaster.
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Beags - Get real! Supposition city! Familiar with immediate post departure recovery actions on the Su 27 are we?
There is an emerging theme to airshow crashes though:
2 x Fulcrums at Farnborough 1993(?)
1 x Flanker at Paris 1999
1 x Flanker in Ukraine
One has to question the display content and work-up criteria of FSU participants given a track record like this.
There is an emerging theme to airshow crashes though:
2 x Fulcrums at Farnborough 1993(?)
1 x Flanker at Paris 1999
1 x Flanker in Ukraine
One has to question the display content and work-up criteria of FSU participants given a track record like this.
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The BBC news clip is very, very sobering. I think some good points are made at the end with regard to western display rules, and whether that would have made any difference. The only thing is, when a wing clips at 3-400 kts, the resultant cartwheeel could go anywhere.
Pre Ramenstein airshows were certainly more exciting, but as you become older, wiser and more aware, one certainly appreciates the reasons why the flightline is nearly half a click away.
My thoughts are with all those people, whose lives have changed forever.
Pre Ramenstein airshows were certainly more exciting, but as you become older, wiser and more aware, one certainly appreciates the reasons why the flightline is nearly half a click away.
My thoughts are with all those people, whose lives have changed forever.
I do wish that some of you would read posts more accurately.
No where did I make any direct statements; merely conjecture having re-run the Sky pre-departure clip several times..... On which asymmetric engine smoke is clearly evident.
No where did I make any direct statements; merely conjecture having re-run the Sky pre-departure clip several times..... On which asymmetric engine smoke is clearly evident.
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John Derry/DH110 Crash
Hectorus Rex
1952 eh? You must be right. Neville Duke was holding the Hunter for take-off when the disaster struck (having recently bust the World Airspeed Record). He waited for a quick runway inspection and then went off and did his full display to distract the crowds, most of whom had no idea of the magnitude of the catastrophe in terms of spectator casualties. 12 out of ten for coolth!
Remember now I was on leave waiting for my Meteor conversion at Driffield, and had the whole family with me. They suddenly lost a lot of enthusiasm for my fledgling career as an aviator! I began to wonder about it, too. I can still remember those two Avons in ballistic trajectory ploughing into the crowd.
I was touched in the parish church this morning (an even-numbered year and no "R" in the month!) when the Rector prayed for the two pilots as well as the bereaved spectators' relatives.
1952 eh? You must be right. Neville Duke was holding the Hunter for take-off when the disaster struck (having recently bust the World Airspeed Record). He waited for a quick runway inspection and then went off and did his full display to distract the crowds, most of whom had no idea of the magnitude of the catastrophe in terms of spectator casualties. 12 out of ten for coolth!
Remember now I was on leave waiting for my Meteor conversion at Driffield, and had the whole family with me. They suddenly lost a lot of enthusiasm for my fledgling career as an aviator! I began to wonder about it, too. I can still remember those two Avons in ballistic trajectory ploughing into the crowd.
I was touched in the parish church this morning (an even-numbered year and no "R" in the month!) when the Rector prayed for the two pilots as well as the bereaved spectators' relatives.
Last edited by Flatus Veteranus; 28th Jul 2002 at 18:23.
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It seems the Ukranian air force has got the right idea about accountability:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2157572.stm
I can't imagine senior RAF officers being arrested in similar circumstances.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2157572.stm
I can't imagine senior RAF officers being arrested in similar circumstances.
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SU-27 EXPERT!!!!
Dear BEagle...
I agree with the comments made earlier...
How about (for once) just reserving stupid comments, you know c**k-all about the SU-27! For all we know the aircraft may have had a fly-by-wire fault, been mishandled, suffered control restriction/damage etc, etc...
Fine to comment on the accident but spare us the in-depth BEagle expertise for a change!
I agree with the comments made earlier...
How about (for once) just reserving stupid comments, you know c**k-all about the SU-27! For all we know the aircraft may have had a fly-by-wire fault, been mishandled, suffered control restriction/damage etc, etc...
Fine to comment on the accident but spare us the in-depth BEagle expertise for a change!
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P'O-heat,
To put it bluntly, Ziplip and get a life, I would suggest jetblast for comments like that. If you're going to cr#p on about peoples posts, have the good grace to read them first.
I also am no expert on the handling of an SU-27 but have a professional interest and will listen to other peoples opinions, before rubbishing them out of hand.
Note also that I wouldn't presume to question your expertise in the matter.....
Have a nice day
.........and good morning to you too!
The observations I made were purely that and did not purport to explain the tragedy. Your intemperate post stated "How about (for once) just reserving stupid comments, you know c**k-all about the SU-27!"
Which particular comments did you feel were 'stupid'?
The observations I made were purely that and did not purport to explain the tragedy. Your intemperate post stated "How about (for once) just reserving stupid comments, you know c**k-all about the SU-27!"
Which particular comments did you feel were 'stupid'?
Two questions.
What was the briefed base height? (looked like the entry height to that last manouvre was very low)
How many hours had they flown in the last 28 days/three months/year?
How many died at Farnborough in '52?
Why can't I count?
What was the briefed base height? (looked like the entry height to that last manouvre was very low)
How many hours had they flown in the last 28 days/three months/year?
How many died at Farnborough in '52?
Why can't I count?