Helicopter crash - Lively Island (FI, 1982)
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Thread Starter
Well, finally I obtained the copy of the Flypast Magazine (thanks a lot all involved!). A map was in the magazine, and its source was an official map from 49 EOD Sqn Det (RE). The Puma was located NW of Lively.
Also, I have a copy of DEFE 48/1169 (Reconstruction of the air war during Op Corporate) and, again: Lively.
Keep searching!
Also, I have a copy of DEFE 48/1169 (Reconstruction of the air war during Op Corporate) and, again: Lively.
Keep searching!
Thread Starter
Flypast Mag
This is the map, based in the RE map. Mogwi
The Canberra marked on Lively (#15) must be Ardile´s Dagger.
#14 is the Puma I am searching for.
Best!
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9 may 82 shot down by SAM Sea Dart HMS Coventry during rescue of fishing boat Narwall survivors. (1Lt Buschiazzo, Lt Fiorito & Sgt Dimotta killed)
Here is a thought, If you know where it departed from and one assumes they would be more or less be directly tracking towards where the Narwal was hit, which one assumes transmitted its position when attacked, could you not draw a line from the departure point to the ships location and would it not narrow down the search area on the Island? it would be a starting point.
https://www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/0109/1084.html
Adding to it, Sadly it appears the Puma came down at sea. From the same article
Here is a thought, If you know where it departed from and one assumes they would be more or less be directly tracking towards where the Narwal was hit, which one assumes transmitted its position when attacked, could you not draw a line from the departure point to the ships location and would it not narrow down the search area on the Island? it would be a starting point.
Meanwhile, the Argentine fishing boat Narwal was sailing at 52º 45' S and 58º 02' W, it was attacked by two Sea Harriers, (Fl Lt Morgan and Lt Cdr Batt), with bombs and cannons; then, when some of her crew had abandoned ship, she was boarded by a helicopter, (Lt Cdr Pollok of 846 Sgdn Hermes), and captured by commando personnel. The Narwal sank the next day while she was being towed. Among the prisoners, twenty-five in all, one died, and twelve were injured.
Adding to it, Sadly it appears the Puma came down at sea. From the same article
The Helicopter Puma AE-505 that was shot down when they were going to the place where the fishing boat NARWAL was sinking to rescue the survivors, was shot down by a Sea Dart missile fired from the frigate Coventry on May 9, 1982, the remains of the personnel and The aircraft were not found because they fell into the sea in the vicinity of the Isla de los Leones Marinos. They were decorated with the medal "The Argentine Nation for Valor in Combat" (Post Mortem)
Thread Starter
Hi!
The helicopter, like any army helicopter, more or less followed the coastline. So much so as not to get lost, and so as not to fly over the sea. There is no radar track, but we know the flight plan, the time of take-off and the exact time it was hit by HMS Coventry's Sea Dart.
We also know the position of HMS Coventry, the distance from the ship to the target and the time of flight of the missile.
With these data, the search location is north of Lively. More or less.
Best!
Mariano
The helicopter, like any army helicopter, more or less followed the coastline. So much so as not to get lost, and so as not to fly over the sea. There is no radar track, but we know the flight plan, the time of take-off and the exact time it was hit by HMS Coventry's Sea Dart.
We also know the position of HMS Coventry, the distance from the ship to the target and the time of flight of the missile.
With these data, the search location is north of Lively. More or less.
Best!
Mariano
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I take it you are aware of these pics of the Puma outside the Governors house BTW
https://www.flickr.com/search/?group...ext=helicopter
https://www.flickr.com/search/?group...ext=helicopter
Thread Starter
Yes, the Coast Guard one!
But it has a connection with this story. That helo (the SAR one) went out of service due to a near impact (naval ordenance) that night. So the order to launch for the SAR mission went to the AAF. The AAF refused to flight (they considered the mission very risky), so Menendez ordered the Army to flew that SAR mission.
The rest is history.
Best,
Mariano
But it has a connection with this story. That helo (the SAR one) went out of service due to a near impact (naval ordenance) that night. So the order to launch for the SAR mission went to the AAF. The AAF refused to flight (they considered the mission very risky), so Menendez ordered the Army to flew that SAR mission.
The rest is history.
Best,
Mariano
Flypast Mag
This is the map, based in the RE map. Mogwi
The Canberra marked on Lively (#15) must be Ardile´s Dagger.
#14 is the Puma I am searching for.
Best!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,076
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I can see the problem, you have a map saying it is on the Lively Island area
HMS Coventry says
https://www.hmscoventry.co.uk/d118/falklands/
Then you have the location in the Narwal report, which infers the island of the lions, which is Sealions?
https://www.malvinense.com.ar/smalvi/0109/1084.html
HMS Coventry says
Within hours of the attack on the Narwal, with Coventry now beginning more shore bombardment, Broadsword passed contact information on a target moving across East Falkland (Broadsword’s radar had far superior moving target indication against ground clutter); Coventry fired another Sea Dart and downed SA.330L Puma AE-505 of Combat Aviation Battalion 601 over Choiseul sound, 13 nautical miles away from the ship. The Puma had been tasked with finding the Narwal after the trawler had made a distress call during the SHAR attack. This was the first confirmed successful engagement by the Sea Dart system, as the impact and explosion were clearly visible, though no trace of the Puma’s wreckage or the three crew were ever found. Confidence in the Sea Dart system increased.
Then you have the location in the Narwal report, which infers the island of the lions, which is Sealions?
The Helicopter Puma AE-505 that was shot down when they were going to the place where the fishing boat NARWAL was sinking to rescue the survivors, was shot down by a Sea Dart missile fired from the frigate Coventry on May 9, 1982, the remains of the personnel and The aircraft were not found because they fell into the sea in the vicinity of the Isla de los Leones Marinos. They were decorated with the medal "The Argentine Nation for Valor in Combat" (Post Mortem)
Thread Starter
Hi NutLoose,
Yes, the old idea was the helo was downed at sea. In fact, the ARG Army idea was the helo was near Sea Lion Island (and they have a painting with that info!)
But new evidence (Coventry BoI, REME map, post war reports of wrecks, Ghurka´s survey of Lively, Ewen ST testimony, and many others) suggests the helo crashed over land or, at least, near the coast. As hard evidence, a Puma propeller was found in that position a couple of years after the war.
Best,
Mariano
Yes, the old idea was the helo was downed at sea. In fact, the ARG Army idea was the helo was near Sea Lion Island (and they have a painting with that info!)
But new evidence (Coventry BoI, REME map, post war reports of wrecks, Ghurka´s survey of Lively, Ewen ST testimony, and many others) suggests the helo crashed over land or, at least, near the coast. As hard evidence, a Puma propeller was found in that position a couple of years after the war.
Best,
Mariano
