Lightning beat up of RAFC graduation parade
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, having seen (and requested) shows of force from the ground, they could be very effective indeed. Of course, there were 'shows of force' and 'SHOWS OF FORCE' - GR4 down low good, WAH-64 lurking with menace better, B-1 at 100 feet and at full power frightened everyone! But as long as the enemy knew the script (which was 'this is your last warning - the next pass won't be friendly' it was very effective indeed, and avoided the need to fling too much ordnance around unnecessarily.
Gentleman Aviator
It was determined that it would need an overflight at 5 feet to be fully effective
But for any sort of air-to-air. we (helos) always reckoned there would be more attractive trade for the "fast and pointed". Inshallah
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
What’s Australian for oops!
Exrivofrigido
What on earth do you think you’re doing?!
You can’t come on here spouting facts borne of actual recent operational experience. You are supposed to offer up unsubstantiated opinions based on supposition and hearsay.
Do you know nothing?!
BV
You can’t come on here spouting facts borne of actual recent operational experience. You are supposed to offer up unsubstantiated opinions based on supposition and hearsay.
Do you know nothing?!
BV
Guest
Posts: n/a
It used to be called "Turning the other cheek" .........
From "Daily Telegraph" (Victoria Ward) 09/01/2015:
......"The pair have said that one of their proudest moments to date involved helping to foil a rocket attack on their base at Kandahar airfield in 2010. There was a high threat and the base was expecting an imminent attack after some men were spotted in a nearby ditch, setting up to fire a rocket at their accommodation block. Wg Cdr Thomas, as navigator, and Flt Lt Fleming were already airborne over the base and cleared the airspace around Kandahar for a “show of force.”
"They took the aircraft out to 15 miles from their position in the ditch and came down to low level, approaching at more than 500mph and as close to the Operational Low Flying minimum of 100 feet as possible, passing directly over them before heading into a steep climb. The rocket crew immediately scarpered in a truck and the pair felt they had made a tangible difference to protect their colleagues".
Wg Cdr Thomas said at the time: “We can perform a range of effects from a show of force to the provision of precise lethal force utilising a variety of advanced weaponry. The intention is to always use the minimum force required to provide the effect needed by the guys on the ground" . We do whatever they need to help them out in a sticky situation, be that just a radio relay between the ground elements to dropping precision weaponry on insurgents"......
[or scaring them off, so they can come back tomorrow and try again ? - I had to pinch myself when I read that ! - but then, remember that in the early days of WWII, we were dropping warning leaflets on Germany].
What do you think ?
From "Daily Telegraph" (Victoria Ward) 09/01/2015:
......"The pair have said that one of their proudest moments to date involved helping to foil a rocket attack on their base at Kandahar airfield in 2010. There was a high threat and the base was expecting an imminent attack after some men were spotted in a nearby ditch, setting up to fire a rocket at their accommodation block. Wg Cdr Thomas, as navigator, and Flt Lt Fleming were already airborne over the base and cleared the airspace around Kandahar for a “show of force.”
"They took the aircraft out to 15 miles from their position in the ditch and came down to low level, approaching at more than 500mph and as close to the Operational Low Flying minimum of 100 feet as possible, passing directly over them before heading into a steep climb. The rocket crew immediately scarpered in a truck and the pair felt they had made a tangible difference to protect their colleagues".
Wg Cdr Thomas said at the time: “We can perform a range of effects from a show of force to the provision of precise lethal force utilising a variety of advanced weaponry. The intention is to always use the minimum force required to provide the effect needed by the guys on the ground" . We do whatever they need to help them out in a sticky situation, be that just a radio relay between the ground elements to dropping precision weaponry on insurgents"......
[or scaring them off, so they can come back tomorrow and try again ? - I had to pinch myself when I read that ! - but then, remember that in the early days of WWII, we were dropping warning leaflets on Germany].
What do you think ?
SOF
I don’t understand why you would want the enemy to “understand the Script”.
In warfare the object is to find and kill the enemy. The current situation is no different except that in current conflicts the ‘finding’ part is more difficult than the ‘killing’ part.
Why then, having found the opposition, would you want to give him the opportunity to scurry off and manufacture another 20 IEDs (to kill and maim your mates), all the while bragging how he faced you down and escaped.
In warfare the object is to find and kill the enemy. The current situation is no different except that in current conflicts the ‘finding’ part is more difficult than the ‘killing’ part.
Why then, having found the opposition, would you want to give him the opportunity to scurry off and manufacture another 20 IEDs (to kill and maim your mates), all the while bragging how he faced you down and escaped.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The fun starts at about 00:30 for these kangaroo botherers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Mh3dsln9M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_Mh3dsln9M
I don’t understand why you would want the enemy to “understand the Script”.
In warfare the object is to find and kill the enemy. The current situation is no different except that in current conflicts the ‘finding’ part is more difficult than the ‘killing’ part.
Why then, having found the opposition, would you want to give him the opportunity to scurry off and manufacture another 20 IEDs (to kill and maim your mates), all the while bragging how he faced you down and escaped.
In warfare the object is to find and kill the enemy. The current situation is no different except that in current conflicts the ‘finding’ part is more difficult than the ‘killing’ part.
Why then, having found the opposition, would you want to give him the opportunity to scurry off and manufacture another 20 IEDs (to kill and maim your mates), all the while bragging how he faced you down and escaped.
Last edited by Timelord; 29th May 2018 at 16:16.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hence buzzing malefactors in ditches, even when it was obvious that they deserved a PAVEWAY to the face. Danny is absolutely right - nothing new under the sun, though I'd hazard that we seem to have reversed the order since his war, and moved on to leaflets (and shows of force) after trying bombs! We did use a few bombs too though.
Edited for Infantry spelung.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And BV, you're right: I fell into the trap! Fear not - I'll find another thread on which I can vent my foetid opinions on the efficacy or not of things of which the media (social or otherwise) have formed my basis for reference. Much more fun that way!
Danny, perhaps you'll at least allow us to bask in a little Christian virtue? Turning the other cheek feels like a gentlemanly act, especially if accompanied by a wry shrug, a fag and a brew. But then again, my grandfather, a staunch and committed Methodist all his life, used to fly to Germany and drop bombs on urban areas (until they tired of his habits and shot him down). I've almost given up trying to understand the rules of this game!
Danny, perhaps you'll at least allow us to bask in a little Christian virtue? Turning the other cheek feels like a gentlemanly act, especially if accompanied by a wry shrug, a fag and a brew. But then again, my grandfather, a staunch and committed Methodist all his life, used to fly to Germany and drop bombs on urban areas (until they tired of his habits and shot him down). I've almost given up trying to understand the rules of this game!
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 33,037
Received 2,913 Likes
on
1,247 Posts
The Aussie was a beginner, how about the Brazillian Supreme Court building
Guest
Posts: n/a
No, I'm afraid I'm too old to grasp the niceties of this. These folk intend to kill you, or your comrades; if they don't do it today, they'll try tomorrow. They are your enemy, and it is your sworn duty to kill them, and that's all there is to it.
Don't think you'd need a Paveway for a pick-up truck. Doesn't a Tornado have a 29 (?) mm cannon ? That should do. But what do I know - I only dropped bog-standard 500 lb and 250 lb H.E.s.
I've read somewhere that the Captain of "Conqueror", when he had "Belgrano" in his sights, had to signal Northwood for permission to fire. Can this really be true ? What would one of Nelson's captains have done ? - and Nelson would've Court-Martialled him if he didn't.
Autre temps, autre moeurs.
Don't think you'd need a Paveway for a pick-up truck. Doesn't a Tornado have a 29 (?) mm cannon ? That should do. But what do I know - I only dropped bog-standard 500 lb and 250 lb H.E.s.
I've read somewhere that the Captain of "Conqueror", when he had "Belgrano" in his sights, had to signal Northwood for permission to fire. Can this really be true ? What would one of Nelson's captains have done ? - and Nelson would've Court-Martialled him if he didn't.
Autre temps, autre moeurs.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
The politics and nuances of Insurgent Warfare present severe challenges. At least YOUR War was fairly straightforward..
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, I'm afraid I'm too old to grasp the niceties of this. These folk intend to kill you, or your comrades; if they don't do it today, they'll try tomorrow. They are your enemy, and it is your sworn duty to kill them, and that's all there is to it.
Don't think you'd need a Paveway for a pick-up truck. Doesn't a Tornado have a 29 (?) mm cannon ? That should do. But what do I know - I only dropped bog-standard 500 lb and 250 lb H.E.s.
I've read somewhere that the Captain of "Conqueror", when he had "Belgrano" in his sights, had to signal Northwood for permission to fire. Can this really be true ? What would one of Nelson's captains have done ? - and Nelson would've Court-Martialled him if he didn't.
Autre temps, autre moeurs.
Don't think you'd need a Paveway for a pick-up truck. Doesn't a Tornado have a 29 (?) mm cannon ? That should do. But what do I know - I only dropped bog-standard 500 lb and 250 lb H.E.s.
I've read somewhere that the Captain of "Conqueror", when he had "Belgrano" in his sights, had to signal Northwood for permission to fire. Can this really be true ? What would one of Nelson's captains have done ? - and Nelson would've Court-Martialled him if he didn't.
Autre temps, autre moeurs.
I think what I'm trying, clumsily, to say, is that we haven't yet grown out of doing bad things to worse people, but there is such an expectation (usually very misguidedly) of zero collateral damage, that the chains are short and tight. But perhaps, in a general war, it won't be so. Insh'allah....
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Age: 79
Posts: 7,812
Received 137 Likes
on
64 Posts
exrivofrigido valuable imputs, for which thanks from me. A very nasty ‘game’ with horribly complex rules. Glad you are still here to contribute.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you MPN, but I can assure you that I just muddled through like most others. Every now and then one came across someone who genuinely understood what was going on, and to them ought to go the plaudits. Well, if we ever get out of the mess, of course. A team game though, and very glad we were to have friends 'upstairs' when we needed them,
The Aussie was a beginner, how about the Brazillian Supreme Court building
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eoTqLnL0WI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eoTqLnL0WI
There was the (verified) tale of a recon F-8 during the Cuban Missile Crisis evading a pursuing MiG at treetop height while supersonic and making his way back out to sea. Having lost sight of the MiG the pilot aimed his jet at a low ridge or saddle between 2 higher hilltops. The ridge was bare and as the pilot approached he noticed some dots on the ridgeline. Turns out it was a campesino and 2 burros, the soon-to-be victim was in the process of relieving himself when the F-8 went over his head at maybe 50 feet. The aftermath remains a thing of speculation.