NI troubles, another Serviceman up on charges of murder
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Without wishing to introduce facts into this discussion I would suggest that PPruNers investigate a little closer. Please see here:Victims' commissioner says PM's facts 'incorrect' - BBC News
Words: "There is no evidence that there has been any systematic or unsystematic targeting of state forces."
Meaning: "We target based on known actions, not status or identity."
Result: 100% targeting of state forces personnel - the only guys there operating publicly, keeping records, and cooperating with the system.
Twas ever thus.....armed forces personnel have been used, thrown under a bus and discarded throughout history. I was so happy when MD junior decided there was no future in it when they were busy throwing babies out with the bath water back in 2010! I sincerely hope that there is "no chance of a conviction".....but that's not really the point. Dennis Hutchings and his family must be going through hell.....I'd like to blame Bliar but sadly, politicians of all shades will have their "dabs" all over this. Shame on them!
Join Date: Jun 2015
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ACW342,
As you quite rightly say, it is important to investigate closer.
Lets start with the info-graphic presented in the article you provided a link to: - 530 + 271 + 354 + 33 = 1188, not 1118 as stated by the BBC. It's not exactly rocket science.
Problem with the casualty figures is trying to get an accurate number, on anything.
Michael McKeown (CAIN Database, 2009):-
Killed by republican terrorists = 2013
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 1018
Killed by "other" = 214
Killed by Security Forces = 378
Malcom Sutton (CAIN Database, 2002):-
Killed by republican terrorists = 2057
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 1027
Killed by "other" = 80
Killed by Security Forces = 363
Quite some discrepancy between figures. As I'm sure you are aware, the situation in Northern Ireland is still active, and further killings have taken place, but these do not come within the remit of "Legacy" killings.
Let us look again at the figures concerning the PSNI "Legacy" investigations quoted by the BBC, bearing in mind that it is not entirely clear what the BBC are talking about - in one paragraph they state it is 1700 killings, but in the info-graphic they state, wrongly, "1118".
Killed by republican terrorists = 530
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 271
Killed by "other"/ u/k = 33
Killed by Security Forces = 354
Is it just me that see's a theme here???
To put it in context, yes, the PSNI Historical Enquiry Team did re-investigate the following killings:-
Deaths by republican terrorists = 1038
Deaths by loyalist terrorists = 536
Deaths by unknown = 9
Deaths by Security Forces = 32
The re-investigations by HET of deaths by Security Forces were regarded as "flawed", and re-reinvestigated by the PSNI Legacy Unit. Not so with the terrorist killings.....
As you quite rightly say, it is important to investigate closer.
Lets start with the info-graphic presented in the article you provided a link to: - 530 + 271 + 354 + 33 = 1188, not 1118 as stated by the BBC. It's not exactly rocket science.
Problem with the casualty figures is trying to get an accurate number, on anything.
Michael McKeown (CAIN Database, 2009):-
Killed by republican terrorists = 2013
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 1018
Killed by "other" = 214
Killed by Security Forces = 378
Malcom Sutton (CAIN Database, 2002):-
Killed by republican terrorists = 2057
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 1027
Killed by "other" = 80
Killed by Security Forces = 363
Quite some discrepancy between figures. As I'm sure you are aware, the situation in Northern Ireland is still active, and further killings have taken place, but these do not come within the remit of "Legacy" killings.
Let us look again at the figures concerning the PSNI "Legacy" investigations quoted by the BBC, bearing in mind that it is not entirely clear what the BBC are talking about - in one paragraph they state it is 1700 killings, but in the info-graphic they state, wrongly, "1118".
Killed by republican terrorists = 530
Killed by loyalist terrorists = 271
Killed by "other"/ u/k = 33
Killed by Security Forces = 354
Is it just me that see's a theme here???
To put it in context, yes, the PSNI Historical Enquiry Team did re-investigate the following killings:-
Deaths by republican terrorists = 1038
Deaths by loyalist terrorists = 536
Deaths by unknown = 9
Deaths by Security Forces = 32
The re-investigations by HET of deaths by Security Forces were regarded as "flawed", and re-reinvestigated by the PSNI Legacy Unit. Not so with the terrorist killings.....
