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Post Galileo

Old 15th Jun 2018, 11:12
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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You're not wrong. Norway and Switzerland have third-party access and the UK can too. The issue is that the UK does not want third-party access as it means no access to the encrypted PRS system and no industrial participation in the military aspects of the system.

The whole notion that we can just use GPS instead is a red herring, as no one is saying we can't use Galileo
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 14:24
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Daysleeper
the one they got cos they build the satellites in the UK and employ about 3,000 people in the space sector in England... talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
Now moving back to the continent and still ripping off mod.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 14:46
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Originally Posted by esa-aardvark
Read up a bit on Galileo (and argued with some former mates). PRS service is full of could/should/might statements. Is the present spat just a storm in a teacup ?
I doubt that it is just a storm in a teacup. I suspect that the UK Mil hopes for the Galileo system were that it would (in future) provide greater levels of accuracy and security of operation for UK developed weapons and systems, in an EW environment. It would seem very strange for the UK Gov to propose spending £???Billions on a go-it-alone space based nav system for domestic peacetime Sat navs when there is no issue with getting that. No Sir! I think we are talking some serious future capabilities that are now placed in jeopardy without access to our "own" system .

OAP
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 17:34
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Sold some land once, in good old New Zealand. I had to pay for a DGPS boundary survey
of high accuracy (Centimetre level).what more does Galileo bring to the party ?
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 17:42
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Originally Posted by esa-aardvark
Sold some land once, in good old New Zealand. I had to pay for a DGPS boundary survey
of high accuracy (Centimetre level).what more does Galileo bring to the party ?
That level of accuracy without the expense of a surveyed DGPS and associated equipment?

DGPS adds a layer of complexity not required by a system having innate accuracy. Probably a lot quicker too. Not sure even DGPS can return centimetre level accuracy without averaging a lot of data points.
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Old 15th Jun 2018, 18:20
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Originally Posted by VinRouge
Not sure even DGPS can return centimetre level accuracy without averaging a lot of data points.
It's quite common here in the US. The surveyors here use a receiver on top of a pole and hold the pole steady for about 15 seconds while pressing a button. Averaging all those steady state signals for 15 seconds gives sub centimeter precision and accuracy. Quick and cheap.
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Old 16th Jun 2018, 07:53
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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That method still puts an atmospheric model between the receiver and the satellites, so the stationary accuracy is only as good as that provided by the model vs real conditions at that very moment. Access to both signals removes that guesswork. If you remove the standing-still-for-ages-at-a-set-altitude bit, say for a GPS bomb in flight, the accuracy of the survey pole becomes rather rubbish rather quickly.
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Old 26th Aug 2018, 09:31
  #88 (permalink)  
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Sunday Telegraph reporting Galileo replacement system has been given the government go ahead, signed off by both PM and Chancellor. First £100m in funding for contracts has already been signed off by the treasury.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tem-rival-eus/
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Old 26th Aug 2018, 12:50
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Sunday Telegraph reporting Galileo replacement system has been given the government go ahead, signed off by both PM and Chancellor. First £100m in funding for contracts has already been signed off by the treasury.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tem-rival-eus/

No doubt that pair have also included road usage tracking as well...
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Old 26th Aug 2018, 18:11
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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One vanity project following another
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Old 26th Aug 2018, 19:22
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Well the EU lot are petulant about it. We offered to be part of it, they didn't want us. Who can be surprised at that?
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 18:30
  #92 (permalink)  
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https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...antum_compass/

Brit boffins build quantum compass, say goodbye to GPS

British boffins have developed a self-contained and tamper-proof compass that doesn't rely on GPS signals to provide a highly accurate measure of where it is in the world. The compass is a quantum accelerometer that is capable of measuring tiny shifts in supercooled atoms and so calculate how far and how fast the device has moved. Stuck on a boat, it would mean that the captain knows exactly where his ship was without having to rely on orbiting satellites.

The system has been designed by boffins at Imperial College, London – who developed a laser system for cooling atoms down – and at photonics and quantum technology specialist M Squared - which developed another laser system to act as an "optical ruler." Their work has been funded by the UK's Ministry of Defence.

Although GPS satellites are a modern marvel and are used by just about everyone to identify their precise location the fact is that the system is not perfect. A phone's GPS is accurate to roughly 15 feet, although military GPS devices can be accurate to centimeters......

But that's not why the Ministry of Defence is interested in a quantum compass: its concern is that the GPS system is vulnerable to attack or deliberate disruption. A GPS signal could be spoofed or blocked for instance. When you're thinking about nuclear submarines, it's usually best to consider the worst.

"Pirates are now sophisticated enough to cause disruptions to ships, and lure them to rocks or take over and board them, by disrupting GPS," said Graeme Malcolm, the CEO of M Squared. “They can be an even bigger issue in areas of defense and security, where the resilience and security of cities, countries are impacted. This new device is an absolute reference that goes down to the level of atoms.".....

The system could be of particular benefit to the UK's military after Europe made it clear that following Brexit, the UK would no longer gain secure access to Europe's new Galileo GPS system despite years of assisting in the system's development and deployment......

The prototype system shown off this week in London is about three-feet wide and high and it is incredibly expensive. Plus it can currently only measure in one plane. The boffins say they will soon be able to take measurements in three planes - making it an entirely independent super compass that can tell you where exactly it is at any point. But what is does represent is the first practical prototype of a theoretical piece of physics.........

"This commercially viable quantum device, the accelerometer, will put the UK at the heart of the coming quantum age," said M Squared's Malcolm.....



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Old 12th Nov 2018, 19:15
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Sounds awesome ... and big and expensive, as noted. Not something to stick on the average dashboard!
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 20:29
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Not something to stick on the average dashboard!
Yet, give it a few years.
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Old 12th Nov 2018, 21:24
  #95 (permalink)  
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First generation INAS system



Modern INAS system.....


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Old 13th Nov 2018, 22:27
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Originally Posted by Icare9
Is there really a need for more Sat Nav systems?

Do they get their mapping from different satellites?
The MAPS do not come from the satellites, ONLY the position. Some other scheme (built-in maps, CDROM downloads, cell phone-internet, whatever) provides the maps.

Jon
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 06:07
  #97 (permalink)  
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tellite-system

.......On Friday, May officially announced that the UK would be pulling out of the system and made no mention of any attempt to recoup the UK’s investment.

“The commission decided that we would be barred from having full aspects of the Galileo programme and so it is right for us to look for alternatives because it would be wrong to put our [armed] services relying on a system on which they couldn’t be sure of,” May told reporters in Buenos Aires while attending the G20 summit. “That would not be in our national interest.”

She added: “So what is in our national interest is to say no, you haven’t allowed us full access, so we will develop an alternative, we will look at alternative options, we are doing that work but we will work with other international partners to do so as well.”

Whitehall sources said the issue of the £1.2bn was yet to be finally resolved because the UK could still choose to be involved in commercial aspects of the system.

“We will be discussing our past contributions to the financing of Galileo in the upcoming talks,” a senior UK official said.

Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system to help guide military drones, run energy networks and other commercial uses. May said the UK had “world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world. We are not short of options.”

Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, said the development of a new system would be an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise in satellite technology. “Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said.......
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 16:39
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Totally ignoring the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 17:27
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Very difficult to miniaturise supercooling ..................
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 19:15
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“Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said.......
I recall a discussion on this forum about proposals for a UK "spaceport" . Initial start up budget of £3 million to get the ball rolling . Could be a while then before the British GPS system is up and running.......
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