New cold war RAF pictures
MPN11
Certainly not boring or routine at LATCC or even Heathrow, the 2 places where I spent the bulk of my ATC career.
Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.
I also did a stint at Boscombe Down, which had always had civilian controllers until CAA lost the contract to Airwork in '92, who then had to be replaced by the RAF in '93. Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!
Oh dear, sounds like a rant but is not intended to be. CAA ATCOs ( now NATS ) particularly at LATCC, SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.
Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.
I also did a stint at Boscombe Down, which had always had civilian controllers until CAA lost the contract to Airwork in '92, who then had to be replaced by the RAF in '93. Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!
Oh dear, sounds like a rant but is not intended to be. CAA ATCOs ( now NATS ) particularly at LATCC, SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 30th Dec 2017 at 17:06. Reason: Addition
Don't knock civil aviation:
No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.
Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).
I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.
No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.
Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).
I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.
Certainly not boring or routine at LATCC or even Heathrow, the 2 places where I spent the bulk of my ATC career.
Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.
. . . . . .
Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!
. . . . . .
SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.
Not wishing to score points, but quite a few ex-RAF ATCOs struggled to make it at both places. One guy who didn't stand a chance at LHR had left at his 38 point - his last posting being a trapper and the penultimate, instructing at Shawbury.
. . . . . .
Something that always drove us mad was calling Brize to arrange a handover on traffic, often fast-jet, going their way. The phone would be answered by Allocator's Assistant, then the Allocator, then Consul 'x' Assistant, then eventually you'd get through to the ATCO who would take the handover. Meanwhile our Jaguar or suchlike was now way north of Brize! That's pedestrian! Civilian controllers always answer the phone themselves!
. . . . . .
SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world and I believe they still are.
"Instructing at Shawbury" - ye-e-e-ss. I was at Wyton where we controlled Alconbury as well and, normally we had to obtain pre-release for handover to Area - EXCEPT for the USAF Phantoms.
Bas: Called Area "Two F4s for you."
Area: "Stand by, I'll get you clearance." (Recognised ex-Shawbury instructor's voice.)
Bas: They're airborne prob passing 100.
Area: "YOU HAVE TO HAVE OUR CLEARANCE!"
Bas: "Errm, not for Alconbury. Coming to you on . . ."
SCATCC and LHR were regarded by pilots as the best in the world
I was just outside the Zone under the TMA.
Bas: Mayday etc. etc.
LHR: "Fly heading 240 clear ILS 27L Break Break Lufty *** Go around fly heading 270 climb 3000ft call approach . . ." (Just like that!)
Bas: Thinks HTF did he know I was going to call with a Mayday??
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
I'd agree with Heathrow controllers being good. Having flown there in aircraft with performance ranges from Shorts 3-60 to B 737, I found that provided you did exactly as you were told, it all worked incredibly smoothly, even fitting a Shorts in between two jumbos. Then again, I guess you don't become a controller at LHR unless you are damn good to begin with.
Don't knock civil aviation:
No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.
Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).
I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.
No indeed. I did 18 years in Transport Command and its re-incarnations. What is more, I never did a ground tour. I can honestly say that I enjoyed my Air Force experience (even the Aden bit) but the money was never wonderful and that gets more and more important the older you get.
Within 18 months of leaving I was in the LHS of a DC-10 and I was earning about the same as an AVM. That was actually fairly modest for I had several chums who became millionaires in Cathay (one of whom was an ex-Sgt Siggie).
I never went near BA, but at the same time, I never went back into the RHS so I made good money such that I am now "comfortably retired". Thank God I don't have to rely on my miserable RAF pension.
The only reason for going to Cathay for a career was the big money, now long gone. Fancied them at one time but so glad I went to a Western airline and just went CX for five years after retirement.
I knew a couple of people who never flew again after the RAF, possibly because they didn't want to be sitting there as a FO for years. As I'm sure you know, it all depended on the captain; some were easy and a few were prats.
The RAF did not have a monopoly on competent and relaxed pilots although, I think, RAF training DID enhance handling confidence.
"was earning about the same as an AVM"
As Brian 48nav says, civil ATCO is very well paid and, whilst not best pleased at the time, I always felt RAF ATCO gave me a Plan B if a medical condition took me off piloting but not ATC.
I've liked everything I've done: MN, RAF Pilot & ATCO, Civil Aviation.
If I had to do it all again it would be:
School to 18 (iso 15) CCF for mil prep
RAF pilot - Short as poss. Defo mil trg.
Civil aviation
or:
Eng degree
City trader
or:
Consultant surgeon (Defo not dentist or GP)
or:
Perhaps I have too high an opinion of my abilities
I've liked everything I've done: MN, RAF Pilot & ATCO, Civil Aviation.
If I had to do it all again it would be:
School to 18 (iso 15) CCF for mil prep
RAF pilot - Short as poss. Defo mil trg.
Civil aviation
or:
Eng degree
City trader
or:
Consultant surgeon (Defo not dentist or GP)
or:
Perhaps I have too high an opinion of my abilities
If I had to do it all again it would be:
School to 18 (iso 15) CCF for mil prep
RAF pilot - Short as poss. Defo mil trg.
Civil aviation
or:
Eng degree
City trader
or:
Consultant surgeon (Defo not dentist or GP)
or:
Perhaps I have too high an opinion of my abilities
Marcantilan, NOT what you want to see at periscope depth!
We almost hit one coming up to periscope depth on the River Clyde some years ago.
We were sailing, so no noise, and some poor sub commander, possibly on his final check (known in the RN, I believe, as The Perisher, not without good reason) hadn't noticed us and almost lost his periscope and radar array.
I saw it and being hard on the wind could easily bear away. The sub didn't appear to be making much way and I reckon we went over his foredeck.
We almost hit one coming up to periscope depth on the River Clyde some years ago.
We were sailing, so no noise, and some poor sub commander, possibly on his final check (known in the RN, I believe, as The Perisher, not without good reason) hadn't noticed us and almost lost his periscope and radar array.
I saw it and being hard on the wind could easily bear away. The sub didn't appear to be making much way and I reckon we went over his foredeck.
Roving,
If you look really carefully at Pt 5, you can see someone acting as a passenger or instructor in the right hand seat. though without the high-vis vest he would've been invisible. Thank goodness for high-vis, eh?
If you look really carefully at Pt 5, you can see someone acting as a passenger or instructor in the right hand seat. though without the high-vis vest he would've been invisible. Thank goodness for high-vis, eh?
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Thank goodness for high-vis, eh?
