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New Defence Secretary

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New Defence Secretary

Old 5th Nov 2017, 21:17
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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Buster 15

Here is just one of those special relationships detailed on the open internet...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 11:05
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Back to the thread....


It transpires that the new Def Sec voted consistently against strengthening the Armed Forces Covenant. Kinda shows what he actually thinks of the men and women of the AF.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:26
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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Here is the record of voting of the new Secretary of Defence on the Military Covenant.

Gavin Williamson consistently voted against strengthening the Military Covenant
TheyWorkForYou has automatically calculated this MP’s stance based on all of their votes on the topic.
All votes about strengthening the Military Covenant:
On 16 Feb 2011:
Gavin Williamson voted against a legally binding Military Covenant set out in law.
On 14 Jun 2011:
Gavin Williamson voted against requiring public bodies and minsters to consider the effects of people's service in the armed forces when setting healthcare, education and housing policy and to consider if special provisions for current, and former, service personnel are justified.
On 26 Jun 2012:
Gavin Williamson voted against calling on the Government to strengthen the military covenant and against requesting a reassessment of the assumptions on which the Strategic Defence and Security Review was based.
Vote information from PublicWhip.
The data on this page may be used freely, on condition that TheyWorkForYou.com is cited as the source.
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Old 6th Nov 2017, 17:40
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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He'll fight the "defence" corner OK then........
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 08:46
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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As I have said, he is there to do the cutting! Funny how he was "welcomed" by MOD. Also, funny how the USA are shouting against any cuts to UK Defence spending....they can see the cutbacks coming.

OAP
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 13:07
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Onceapilot View Post
As I have said, he is there to do the cutting! Funny how he was "welcomed" by MOD. Also, funny how the USA are shouting against any cuts to UK Defence spending....they can see the cutbacks coming.

OAP
Further cuts, for that's what they are despite weasel word demands to call them adjustments, will be futile and damage UK standing at a time we are desperately pushing our global credentials.

We hear of 'unaffordable' programmes and lay the blame at underperforming Single Services or MOD planners. Now they may be underperforming in certain respects, but equipment programmes, operations, training activity, they all fall out higher political direction. Not because someone wakes up and suddenly decides ordering a couple of carriers or a new fleet of FJ might be a good idea. Cutting capability means cutting the requirement. To cut the former but not the latter is any one of naive, ignorant, wishful thinking, or just plain stupid. Probably all the above, but it won't make the current situation any better.

Senior leaders need to start asking questions of themselves and what their aims and objectives are, and then if the answer needs resource, resourcing it rather than pretending we can do everything with nothing. We are the Armed Forces not the Magic Circle; leave the rabbits and hats to them. But to keep continuing this saga of the emperor's new clothes does nothing for national standing or capability and seriously compromises our ability to project influence as we aspire to do in this post-BREXIT era.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 13:35
  #67 (permalink)  
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
 
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What did we do with Crimea when we eventually conquered it and pinched it from the Russians?
We didn’t pinch it......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_War

......”Peace negotiations at the Congress of Paris resulted in the signing of the Treaty of Paris on 30 March 1856. In compliance with article III, Russia restored to the Ottoman Empire the city and citadel of Kars in common with "all other parts of the Ottoman territory of which the Russian troop were in possession". Russia returned the Budjak, in Bessarabia, back to Moldavia. By article IV Britain, France, Sardinia and Turkey restored to Russia "the towns and ports of Sevastopol, Balaklava, Kamish, Eupatoria, Kerch, Jenikale, Kinburn as well as all other territories occupied by the allied troops"........
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 14:16
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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It all seems like the Defence plan put together by Sir Michael is about to be severely tampered with. I know you shouldn't judge a book by its glossy cover, however, the cut of this Williamson chap strikes me he should be offering loans and overdrafts to people who won't be able to meet the eye watering repayments. As such his only perception as Defence Secretary will be to march off down the route of cuts, cuts and more cuts. Expect some more outrageous outsourcing, possibly?

FB
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 15:16
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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You may well all be right re cuts. However I'm also conscious that there is (understandably) a well-established "Private Frazer" tradition in these parts. For example I recall in the run-up to the 2015 SDSR there were many consistent and very definite predictions of imminent chainsaw massacre being visited upon defence by the review.

I suspect that with all the "leaks" re the amphibious capability etc we're being softened up so that what actually happens won't be seen as quite so bad after all.

I also tend to look for straws to clutch at at times like these (ie most of the time). One such is the fact that politically young Mr W is in some respects in quite a strong position (as long as Theresa May lasts, which admittedly may not be very long); and will want to make a name for himself. Personally I'd be surprised if he wants to make his mark as doing HMG's bidding in relation to cuts, and to be remembered for that. But I've been wrong before, so who knows.
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 16:59
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Expect some more outrageous outsourcing,
Make the navy look to its history - make them Privateers. It worked for Elizabeth 1
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Old 8th Nov 2017, 22:12
  #71 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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Do we have a new Sec Def this week?






Yet
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 07:41
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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You may be right Frostie but in some ways the constant salami slicing is worse than facing the facts and making cuts to get us to the position where we can see what we have and what we can do rather than more and more stretching
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 10:22
  #73 (permalink)  
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
 
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HH, remember DC used an axe and not a scalpel - Harrier and Nimrod.
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 12:59
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Melchie but I think

"Senior leaders need to start asking questions of themselves and what their aims and objectives are, and then if the answer needs resource, resourcing it rather than pretending we can do everything with nothing"

Has been doing the rounds since options ...

..if not before..
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 16:48
  #75 (permalink)  
 
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the way things are going we may never get to another Tory Review....
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Old 9th Nov 2017, 17:47
  #76 (permalink)  
 
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Make the navy look to its history - make them Privateers. It worked for Elizabeth 1
Waddayamean?

Should we have the RAF sub-let our aircrews out to the likes of Ryanair for a few quid?

Or should we perhaps rent out pongos out as nightclub bouncers, flogging dope produced from poppy crops which they so munificently oversaw when they patrolled Helmand? That sort of thing worked very profitably for the best part of 99 years in Honkers.

Should we perhaps funnel their pay and perks through the Caribbean? It works for upper echelon Duchies, such as those of Cornwall and Lancaster, which have a very lengthy history of booty-grabbing, particularly in that part of the world.

Sounds like you've got the beginnings of a business plan. Have it on my desk in Douglas or St Helier or Road Town Tortola by Monday morning, please.
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 16:43
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Should we have the RAF sub-let our aircrews out to the likes of Ryanair for a few quid?
Well, the RAF already lets a few tanker/transports out for a few quid . . .
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Old 10th Nov 2017, 19:11
  #78 (permalink)  
ICM
 
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Not at all sure about that. Isn't it the Airtanker consortium that leases the aircraft to users, including the RAF?
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 19:13
  #79 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently new SofS made some comment about "services should properly reflect current society". Lovely letter in DT (just seen it reprinted in the Week that has just arrived) from Lt Col Ewen Southby-Tailyour, a just famous Royal Marine. He offers a counter view that RM (and by implication the other services) should not reflect nor be regarded as an all inclusive employer. He then lists classes and groups of people the Royal Marines would not employ, whilst employing those they can train to fight, withstand arduous conditions and if necessary kill with their bare hands. e trusts that such training and skills are not representative of modern society. I think he may be right and the SoS wrong. Or just maybe I am a dinosaur.
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Old 15th Nov 2017, 19:24
  #80 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wander00 View Post
Apparently new SofS made some comment about "services should properly reflect current society". Lovely letter in DT (just seen it reprinted in the Week that has just arrived) from Lt Col Ewen Southby-Tailyour, a just famous Royal Marine. He offers a counter view that RM (and by implication the other services) should not reflect nor be regarded as an all inclusive employer. He then lists classes and groups of people the Royal Marines would not employ, whilst employing those they can train to fight, withstand arduous conditions and if necessary kill with their bare hands. e trusts that such training and skills are not representative of modern society. I think he may be right and the SoS wrong. Or just maybe I am a dinosaur.
No, I think you're right Wander00. It probably should, but leadership and command and ordering people to take life and risk their own is not a common characteristic across society. Unfortunately that isn't a viewpoint that tallies with the current views in many (not all) elements of society - revisionist, social media driven, popular authoritarianism with self-centred snowflake tendencies. Frankly I think society would be better if it came up to our level than we descended to its.

Controversial, I know. Donning tin hat and retreating to my 'safe space'!
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