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So why are the Austrians ditching Typhoon?

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So why are the Austrians ditching Typhoon?

Old 18th Sep 2017, 19:01
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So why are the Austrians ditching Typhoon?

Austria’s deliberately down-graded Eurofighters are to be retired prematurely, amid criticism of missing capabilities:


On 7 July 2017 Austria’s Social Democrat Defence Minister Hans Peter Doskozil announced that the Luftstreitkräfte (Austrian air force) would end operations of its fleet of 15 single-seat Tranche-1/Block-5/2R Eurofighters prematurely, some time between 2020-2023.

The Minister was quoted as saying that: “It was necessary to halt the overflowing costs of a Eurofighter which does not have the full capabilities needed for our sovereign air-surveillance. Subsequently we today announce that the Eurofighter in Austrian service is history!”

At the same press conference, Brigadier Karl Gruber, the commander of the Austrian air force melodramatically said that: “I want to be assured that my pilots are not sentenced to death, when in the future (they) may be meeting a defecting, renegade Su-27 and its pursuers...”

The impression given was that the Eurofighter was too expensive, and was inherently lacking in capability, and that the Tranche 1 version used by Austria was effectively obsolescent and might be difficult to support. The official Austrian Bundeswehr (armed forces) website described the Tranche 1 aircraft as having “limited equipment and significant cost uncertainty.”
Brigadier Gruber pointed out that the Tranche 1 version of the aircraft was only operated by the core member countries of the Eurofighter consortium — the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain – and that since those countries had “developed different concepts for the future,” he said. “it appears likely that there will be no uniform Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 system in the future.”

This is extremely misleading, since the Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoon remains one of the most capable and most effective air defence aircraft in service today, while with proper support arrangements, other operators are finding costs to be reasonable. Moreover, the UK RAF has recently delivered a real boost in the Tranche 1 aircraft’s long term future by committing to retain it in service until 2035, thereby ensuring that the type will be fully supported for at least another 18 years.

Furthermore any lack of capability in Austria’s Tranche 1 Eurofighter aircraft is very much restricted to the specific Austrian configuration, and is the direct result of ‘unique-to-Austria’ procurement decisions, which saw the Alpine nation order a version of the aircraft which quite deliberately lacked a number of key items of equipment, in a short-sighted attempt to shave cost from the programme.

More at:

https://www.facebook.com/aerospacean...59527507586743
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Old 18th Sep 2017, 19:06
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Cos they have almost no qualified folk to fly them?
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Old 18th Sep 2017, 22:00
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Brexit., or Boris
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 09:30
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Brexit., or Boris
Don't forget Margaret Thatcher in that list as well
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 09:50
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For the same reason Canada chose the S92 for their maritime helicopter and not the Merlin. Politics.
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 10:00
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A victory for Austria's fake news outlets...

What do they plan to replace them with - F35s? :/
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 10:30
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[QUOTE What do they plan to replace them with - F35s? :/[/QUOTE]

Anyone got a few spare Drakens going cheap?
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 12:58
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Drakens don't go "cheap" - mostly they go "slurp, guggle, slurp" before quietly burping and then whistling on the glide...

PDR
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 13:02
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AFAICS if the Austrians want to recover the capabilities they pruned out of the spec of their Typhoons their most cost-effective option would be to simply have a mid-life-upgrade to bring these aeroplanes up to the UK or German Tranche-1 spec. Replacing them with a new type has got to be the more expensive option.

But this is a classical example of the old adage about "Every pound you decide not to spend on initial procurement will cost you at least £10 over the service life..."

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Old 19th Sep 2017, 14:16
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Originally Posted by dead_pan View Post
A victory for Austria's fake news outlets...

What do they plan to replace them with - F35s? :/
Most likely Gripens
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 14:26
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I wonder how many read the thread title & thought; "But don't they fly Hornets?"
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 15:53
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The Australians never bought Typhoon, definitely fake news! 😉
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 15:55
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Originally Posted by Davef68 View Post
Most likely Gripens
Indeed, so it would seem.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN19S0ZN
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 17:19
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
Austria’s deliberately down-graded Eurofighters are to be retired prematurely, amid criticism of missing capabilities:


On 7 July 2017 Austria’s Social Democrat Defence Minister Hans Peter Doskozil announced that the Luftstreitkräfte (Austrian air force) would end operations of its fleet of 15 single-seat Tranche-1/Block-5/2R Eurofighters prematurely, some time between 2020-2023.

The Minister was quoted as saying that: “It was necessary to halt the overflowing costs of a Eurofighter which does not have the full capabilities needed for our sovereign air-surveillance. Subsequently we today announce that the Eurofighter in Austrian service is history!”

At the same press conference, Brigadier Karl Gruber, the commander of the Austrian air force melodramatically said that: “I want to be assured that my pilots are not sentenced to death, when in the future (they) may be meeting a defecting, renegade Su-27 and its pursuers...”

The impression given was that the Eurofighter was too expensive, and was inherently lacking in capability, and that the Tranche 1 version used by Austria was effectively obsolescent and might be difficult to support. The official Austrian Bundeswehr (armed forces) website described the Tranche 1 aircraft as having “limited equipment and significant cost uncertainty.”
Brigadier Gruber pointed out that the Tranche 1 version of the aircraft was only operated by the core member countries of the Eurofighter consortium — the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain – and that since those countries had “developed different concepts for the future,” he said. “it appears likely that there will be no uniform Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 system in the future.”

This is extremely misleading, since the Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoon remains one of the most capable and most effective air defence aircraft in service today, while with proper support arrangements, other operators are finding costs to be reasonable. Moreover, the UK RAF has recently delivered a real boost in the Tranche 1 aircraft’s long term future by committing to retain it in service until 2035, thereby ensuring that the type will be fully supported for at least another 18 years.

Furthermore any lack of capability in Austria’s Tranche 1 Eurofighter aircraft is very much restricted to the specific Austrian configuration, and is the direct result of ‘unique-to-Austria’ procurement decisions, which saw the Alpine nation order a version of the aircraft which quite deliberately lacked a number of key items of equipment, in a short-sighted attempt to shave cost from the programme.

More at:

https://www.facebook.com/aerospacean...59527507586743
It is a little more than cost, it is an ongoing rift with Airbus Group since the beginning of the year where they ar being accused of corruption

Austria sues Airbus over alleged Eurofighter corruption | Business | DW | 16.02.2017

which in turn is consequently affecting them bidding for the Bundesheer's need for a multi role helicopter.

Austria?s rift with Airbus hampers helicopter acquisition | Jane's 360

Interesting L-M are in the mix apart from Saab.....

Btw how many of Conningsby's finest were involved in training up the first batch of Tiffy pilots and maintenance crews over here in Austria?

Ive laughingly only seen one of their Tiffy's fly at low level as I was ona train heading to Salzburg from the east...

cheers
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Old 19th Sep 2017, 22:05
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No mention of the cost of maintenance hours per flying hour. Which could be the deciding factor. Are old tranche 1's less reliable than more modern tranche 2's with upgraded avionics and teething troubles ironed out?
Then there's the cost of maintenance and support versus other aircraft types, are Gripen, Rafale and maybe F16 cheaper to operate over their in-service life?
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 09:26
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With a tiny fleet I'd be surprised if buying a replacement (and all the associated infrastructure, support and training) would work out cheaper that the €80 m per year that the (fully bought and paid for) Typhoons cost them to operate.

Nor am I convinced that a Gripen would provide sufficient overmatch for the good Brigadier's scenario of "meeting a defecting, renegade Su-27 and its pursuers…”
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 11:26
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Originally Posted by chopper2004 View Post

Ive laughingly only seen one of their Tiffy's fly at low level as I was ona train heading to Salzburg from the east...
They had two at the Leuchars Air Show a few years back, along with one of their C130Ks
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Old 20th Sep 2017, 12:11
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Nor am I convinced that a Gripen would provide sufficient overmatch for the good Brigadier's scenario of "meeting a defecting, renegade Su-27 and its pursuers…”
If the Su-27 was defecting, why would you need 'overmatch'? Asking for a friend.

Also, odd that a presumably Russian defecting Su-27 would fly all the way to Austria before landing.
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 11:37
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Originally Posted by Jackonicko View Post
Austria’s deliberately down-graded Eurofighters are to be retired prematurely, amid criticism of missing capabilities:


On 7 July 2017 Austria’s Social Democrat Defence Minister Hans Peter Doskozil announced that the Luftstreitkräfte (Austrian air force) would end operations of its fleet of 15 single-seat Tranche-1/Block-5/2R Eurofighters prematurely, some time between 2020-2023.

The Minister was quoted as saying that: “It was necessary to halt the overflowing costs of a Eurofighter which does not have the full capabilities needed for our sovereign air-surveillance. Subsequently we today announce that the Eurofighter in Austrian service is history!”

At the same press conference, Brigadier Karl Gruber, the commander of the Austrian air force melodramatically said that: “I want to be assured that my pilots are not sentenced to death, when in the future (they) may be meeting a defecting, renegade Su-27 and its pursuers...”

The impression given was that the Eurofighter was too expensive, and was inherently lacking in capability, and that the Tranche 1 version used by Austria was effectively obsolescent and might be difficult to support. The official Austrian Bundeswehr (armed forces) website described the Tranche 1 aircraft as having “limited equipment and significant cost uncertainty.”
Brigadier Gruber pointed out that the Tranche 1 version of the aircraft was only operated by the core member countries of the Eurofighter consortium — the UK, Germany, Italy and Spain – and that since those countries had “developed different concepts for the future,” he said. “it appears likely that there will be no uniform Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1 system in the future.”

This is extremely misleading, since the Tranche 1 Eurofighter Typhoon remains one of the most capable and most effective air defence aircraft in service today, while with proper support arrangements, other operators are finding costs to be reasonable. Moreover, the UK RAF has recently delivered a real boost in the Tranche 1 aircraft’s long term future by committing to retain it in service until 2035, thereby ensuring that the type will be fully supported for at least another 18 years.

Furthermore any lack of capability in Austria’s Tranche 1 Eurofighter aircraft is very much restricted to the specific Austrian configuration, and is the direct result of ‘unique-to-Austria’ procurement decisions, which saw the Alpine nation order a version of the aircraft which quite deliberately lacked a number of key items of equipment, in a short-sighted attempt to shave cost from the programme.

More at:

https://www.facebook.com/aerospacean...59527507586743
On Sunday night Kurz won the internal legislative elections thus tipped to be the next chancellor albeit the youngest leader around ...

He’s also doing the coalition with the far right ....

I wonder if /when he gets in what his plans re the Tiffy future will be. Put it this way national security and defence are high on the list.

Cheers
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Old 19th Oct 2017, 13:41
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The official Austrian Bundeswehr (armed forces) website described the Tranche 1 aircraft as having “limited equipment and significant cost uncertainty.”
They seem to have been well ahead of the early block F-35's with this procurement strategy. Perhaps this is the new paradigm for fast jet procurement, and people don't appreciate a trend setter when they see one.

Hat, coat, exit, and don't forget to tip your waitress.


On a more serious note: when the total buy number for a fast jet is small, and the budget is modest, any MoD is left with some very hard choices and funding profiles that may not always work out in the long term. It appears that the Austrian MoD and their Air Force have found themselves between a rock and a hard place.
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