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End of the 1%ers?

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End of the 1%ers?

Old 12th Sep 2017, 17:10
  #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gijoe View Post
The puke-inducing self-opinion that the RAF is better than everyone else and sense of self-entitlement is just amazing.

Those above will have make more 'operational' decisions than you will do in a lifetime - 24/7/365 - and not from a p*ss-stained chair in the corner of some mess whilst trying to do the DT crossword.
My God! All these years of reading Bob Viking's comments and I had no idea he was a Marxist agitator, fighting for military rule over the oppressed masses! Thanks gijoe, I have certainly underestimated him all this time. Anyway, must go, I appear to pi$$ed myself while sitting in the Mess.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 17:41
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you. I think.

BV
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 18:06
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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HM Gov recently advertised my old job, I was on 30k in 2001 and today in 2017 that same job pays 35k - 16 years on and just 5k more means a significant drop in real earnings when compared to the rise in the true 'cost of living'.

I'd say that's a problem for anyone in a branch of government service.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 19:41
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fonsini View Post
HM Gov recently advertised my old job, I was on 30k in 2001 and today in 2017 that same job pays 35k - 16 years on and just 5k more means a significant drop in real earnings when compared to the rise in the true 'cost of living'.

I'd say that's a problem for anyone in a branch of government service.
Think I can top that Fonsini......firefighters were on approx. 25 or 26k in 2002 (when we went on strike for 30k) and are now on approx 28k. Pretty dreadful really.
MD
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 21:02
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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Hi MD

Just did a quick internet search and found this:

There is a nationally-agreed salary structure for firefighters.
The starting salary for a trainee firefighter is 22,017. When full competence is achieved, this rises to 29,345. Higher rates apply for overtime.
Crew manager salaries range from 31,189 (development) to 32,533 (competent). Watch manger salaries range from 33,237 to 36,381.
A station manager's earning potential is between 37,842 and 41,737 plus overtime rates, subject to the officer's level of competence.
Further advancement to the role of group manager and then area manager attracts salaries of between 44,889 and 56,124, depending on the level of competence.
I also understand that the number of fires have decreased due to people stopping smoking (in bed used to be a real problem!) and proactive measures such as smoke alarms in the last 15 years or so. So the lower risk probably means that over time the Firefighters' Pay Review Body may well have adjusted the pay to reflect the lower level of call out and thus exposure to risk?

Here are the fire stats: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...7-hosb1317.pdf A lot less fires over 15 years and also the FRS attend more false alarms than actual fires in recent years.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 21:35
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by iRaven View Post
Hi MD

Just did a quick internet search and found this:



I also understand that the number of fires have decreased due to people stopping smoking (in bed used to be a real problem!) and proactive measures such as smoke alarms in the last 15 years or so. So the lower risk probably means that over time the Firefighters' Pay Review Body may well have adjusted the pay to reflect the lower level of call out and thus exposure to risk?

Here are the fire stats: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...7-hosb1317.pdf A lot less fires over 15 years and also the FRS attend more false alarms than actual fires in recent years.
IRaven.........I'll stand corrected on the numbers......but I'm not a million miles out. Fact is, for a couple of years we got zero.....then for several years we got 1%. Of course you can earn more with promotion....but that's the same with any job. Generally speaking, there isn't much in the way of overtime......you have to compare apples with apples so you can't start bringing overtime into the picture......we're talking basic pay aren't we? Yes, fire calls are down, but you're not surely suggesting that firefighters pay should be reduced in line with this......are you? Firefighters have taken on other roles, which was fine as far as I was concerned. You say we attended more false alarms than actual fires.....so what? The nature of emergencies are that they come when you least expect them.......most people on here will never need the fire service (thankfully) so it's only natural to assume firefighters don't do much. I can think of lots of people over the years who were very happy to see me turn up on a big red fun bus. Anyway....I don't THINK you're having a go at me....regardless, I'm a staunch supporter of the armed forces. Aim your ire at the charlatans who say we're all in it together when clearly, we aren't. If they'd had the sense to show some restraint with their own pay, I'm not sure they'd be in the trouble they're in right now. Aim it at the kind of people who can give their wife's hairdresser a gong but can't provide support for the people who did their bidding in a pointless war.
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 21:44
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Aim your ire at the charlatans who say we're all in it together when clearly, we aren't. If they'd had the sense to show some restraint with their own pay, I'm not sure they'd be in the trouble they're in right now. Aim it at the kind of people who can give their wife's hairdresser a gong but can't provide support for the people who did their bidding in a pointless war.
Spot on Mopardave
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 21:50
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Hi MD

I was being a bit of a scampish troll-ette in my post, but as the nature of the job changes then the remuneration package will change. I do agree that the 0% and 1% pay rises have really got to stop...especially when the MPs awarded themselves a disgraceful rise in the middle of it!! But, do I think it's all about the money? No I don't. People in HMForces are more concerned over the gradual erosion of trust and terms and conditions over the past 20 years or so. How can it be right to trust someone with a weapon system to follow orders to take a life (or lives) in accordance with orders/directives but you have to audit them to within an inch of their lives for allowance claims, leave passes, minor discipline issues, nugatory mandatory training, self-help forms with risk assesments to paint your office, etc... etc...? The money isn't too bad, it's the other stuff that is killing the public sector and why people are leaving in my humble opinion.

Apologies for the mini-troll, again
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Old 12th Sep 2017, 22:28
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by iRaven View Post
Hi MD

I was being a bit of a scampish troll-ette in my post, but as the nature of the job changes then the remuneration package will change. I do agree that the 0% and 1% pay rises have really got to stop...especially when the MPs awarded themselves a disgraceful rise in the middle of it!! But, do I think it's all about the money? No I don't. People in HMForces are more concerned over the gradual erosion of trust and terms and conditions over the past 20 years or so. How can it be right to trust someone with a weapon system to follow orders to take a life (or lives) in accordance with orders/directives but you have to audit them to within an inch of their lives for allowance claims, leave passes, minor discipline issues, nugatory mandatory training, self-help forms with risk assesments to paint your office, etc... etc...? The money isn't too bad, it's the other stuff that is killing the public sector and why people are leaving in my humble opinion.

Apologies for the mini-troll, again
Non taken IRaven....I don't disagree with anything you say......yes, conditions of service are crucial! I know that your conditions have been decimated........and that's a scandal. I was fortunate.....I breezed through my Fire Service career and was able to be quite sanguine about things that caused other people problems, which is maybe why I take the view I do. My beef wasn't over pay or conditions....though they were heading south rapidly.....no, my beef was with those who preached austerity and yet never experienced it themselves.....that's just plain insulting! When my son was in the Royal Engineers, I couldn't get my head around the pay as you dine thing and the way they were charged for things they'd supposedly damaged when they hadn't! We, sorry, the politicians don't deserve the armed forces we've got.......and doubtless, there are a few VSO's complicit in all this. Anyway, this has gotten a little heavy. Those who've served or are serving have my complete support.
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 06:47
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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There were some gross injustices back in the 1980s concerning paying for meals in an Officers' Mess...

Bean stealers who paid little, if anything.
The Stn Rock who ate an enormous breakfast, but paid the same as a dainty little WRAF did for her two pieces of toast.
The nonsense of 'extra messing' - if you had 3 meals in one day you paid one day's extra messing, but if you had breakfast one day, lunch on a second and dinner on a third, you paid 3 days extra messing.
'Duty meal' entitlement - very divisive that was.
Then there was the 'Admin Wing Lunch', so named because Admin Wg officers who lived out would enjoy a huge lunch at the expense of living in aircrew who weren't able to get down to the mess at lunchtime.

Pay as you dine was supposed to make things fairer for all. The simple concept being that, as in any other restaurant, you paid for what you ate. But it was hijacked by the decision to introduce contractor catering - THAT was the real nonsense. Because contractors expect to make profits, so prices went up, variety and quality went down.

Don't blame PAYD, blame the creeping cancer of contractorisation!
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 07:58
  #31 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by mopardave View Post
Aim your ire at the charlatans who say we're all in it together when clearly, we aren't. If they'd had the sense to show some restraint with their own pay, I'm not sure they'd be in the trouble they're in right now. Aim it at the kind of people who can give their wife's hairdresser a gong but can't provide support for the people who did their bidding in a pointless war.
Spot on mopardave.
Unfortunately for us all, I see little hope for our future in any of the political parties.

OAP
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 08:38
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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I am a little surprised that the UK population are unprepared for the financial reality of our future
No no, that's so unfair. I am utterly convinced by the twin mantras of "We'll put the Great back into Great Britain (just don't ask how)" and "It'll be alright". Nothing to worry about, sunlit uplands ahead. Take your seats now so you get a good view of Europe disintegrating after we leave.

I still think choppy waters lie ahead in coming months.
Naysayer, doom-monger, subversive anti-patriot - never darken our doors again you miserable self-pitying knobcheese.
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 10:08
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
There were some gross injustices back in the 1980s concerning paying for meals in an Officers' Mess...

Bean stealers who paid little, if anything.
The Stn Rock who ate an enormous breakfast, but paid the same as a dainty little WRAF did for her two pieces of toast.
The nonsense of 'extra messing' - if you had 3 meals in one day you paid one day's extra messing, but if you had breakfast one day, lunch on a second and dinner on a third, you paid 3 days extra messing.
'Duty meal' entitlement - very divisive that was.
Then there was the 'Admin Wing Lunch', so named because Admin Wg officers who lived out would enjoy a huge lunch at the expense of living in aircrew who weren't able to get down to the mess at lunchtime.

Pay as you dine was supposed to make things fairer for all. The simple concept being that, as in any other restaurant, you paid for what you ate. But it was hijacked by the decision to introduce contractor catering - THAT was the real nonsense. Because contractors expect to make profits, so prices went up, variety and quality went down.

Don't blame PAYD, blame the creeping cancer of contractorisation!
Point taken Beagle. I guess I was sensitive to the PAYD thing because my son would tell me about young squaddie colleagues of his who couldn't on occasion afford to eat. The reasons why don't matter. They held a book at the till so they could take details and have the money taken from their wages. I wasn't comfortable with companies like C*mpass having that kind of involvement (and at the time, I was a C*mpass shareholder!). If you're "captive" on a military base, you should at least have access to heavily subsidised food FFS! That and PFI.....what a slippery slope we're on! On the odd occasion I've stopped off at Linton, I've been astounded at the number of contractors driving around wearing their company SERCOats!
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 10:14
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by TorqueOfTheDevil View Post
No no, that's so unfair. I am utterly convinced by the twin mantras of "We'll put the Great back into Great Britain (just don't ask how)" and "It'll be alright". Nothing to worry about, sunlit uplands ahead. Take your seats now so you get a good view of Europe disintegrating after we leave.



Naysayer, doom-monger, subversive anti-patriot - never darken our doors again you miserable self-pitying knobcheese.

Like your style TOTD....although calling someone a "miserable self-pitying knobcheese" is perhaps a little fruity! Keep up with the pro British rhetoric.....my faith needs bolstering right now.....it's taking a battering! Oh, and which "dark satanic mills" would they be?
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 10:50
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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The government's pay policy lacks transparency and coherence. As a PC I am pleased to be offered 2% as that is much better than the 1% I had expected but the government isn't fully funding the rise as 1% has to come from police force reserves and doesn't contribute to our pensions, and the other 1% has to come from current police budgets which are not being increased enough to cover the pay rise let alone inflation. Apparently our pay board recommended 2.8% but as the report hasn't been published I can only go on hearsay, but if that is the case then the government hasn't implemented their recommendation fully.

Their general attitude to public sector pay rises doesn't bear much scrutiny either. They say they are becoming more flexible about pay to address recruitment issues but although less people are applying to the join the police, recruitment is still generally quite strong. The NHS and judging from comments on PPRuNe the military are struggling to recruit but the government isn't doing anything about their pay yet.

The real winners from the governments flexibility will be MPs as their pay rises are linked to the average rise in the public sector the the more people the government gives rises to the higher the MP's pay rise will be. They received 1.5% and 1.4% in for their last two rises on top of the one off 11% three years ago.
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Old 13th Sep 2017, 12:43
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mopardave View Post
Like your style TOTD....although calling someone a "miserable self-pitying knobcheese" is perhaps a little fruity! Keep up with the pro British rhetoric.....my faith needs bolstering right now.....it's taking a battering! Oh, and which "dark satanic mills" would they be?
Quote:
I still think choppy waters lie ahead in coming months.
Naysayer, doom-monger, subversive anti-patriot - never darken our doors again you miserable self-pitying knobcheese.
TOTD - have you been talking to my old girlfriends? I think one of them has her eye on standing for MP next time round, so this could well have been her influence. She never forgave me for suggesting that hunting would be far more sporting if grouse could shoot back! (Ps you missed cockwomble!) ;-)
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