Commissioned from the ranks.
QUOTE:
Thought this might happen! It is difficult to compare the ranks, but I get your point. The rank of Commander in the police is not held in any provincial forces, only the Met and I think the City of London. The equivalent outside of London is an ACC - Assistant Chief Constable, an ACPO rank, so could perhaps be compared to the first Air/Flag rank etc.
Whether a senior or junior Chief Superintendent, it is only one rank above Superintendent.
It is exactly because I knew that [daughter and her husband both Met. Police] that I wrote "Commander or a senior Chief Super". Unless there is a rank between Chief Super and Commander in the Met., or between Chief Super and ACC elsewhere, I believe my initial post made my point as precisely as I could.
Semantics really.
Certainly the Superintendents who often [why?] lunched at RAF Leeming called Wg Co Flying "Sir" in about 1965 because I clearly remember making a mental note. It is the short term memory that is shagged these days!
Thought this might happen! It is difficult to compare the ranks, but I get your point. The rank of Commander in the police is not held in any provincial forces, only the Met and I think the City of London. The equivalent outside of London is an ACC - Assistant Chief Constable, an ACPO rank, so could perhaps be compared to the first Air/Flag rank etc.
Whether a senior or junior Chief Superintendent, it is only one rank above Superintendent.
It is exactly because I knew that [daughter and her husband both Met. Police] that I wrote "Commander or a senior Chief Super". Unless there is a rank between Chief Super and Commander in the Met., or between Chief Super and ACC elsewhere, I believe my initial post made my point as precisely as I could.
Semantics really.
Certainly the Superintendents who often [why?] lunched at RAF Leeming called Wg Co Flying "Sir" in about 1965 because I clearly remember making a mental note. It is the short term memory that is shagged these days!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
but I walk upstairs.....you know the rest!
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Almost three decades back I was employed by a British subsidiary of a US arms manufacturer to develop a product for the Star Wars programme. Eventually the system all came together and it was time to carry out a live function test in the States. I was required to attend along with many other civilian staff from other contractors. I filled in all the necessary paperwork and where it asked for my rank I put "civilian" and sent it off.
Almost by return I had a reply asking me for my ""Military Rank Equivalent" as the word civilian was not good enough. As time was pressing I asked my secretary to find out what they needed and she became even more confused than I was. So I contacted our HR function who in turn contacted the parent company HR function in the States. Eventually I had a conversation with a nice chap from HR, USA who suggested I put down "Colonel". His reasoning was that "they don't tend to argue about status with foreign colonels".
Whilst on the trip I was really well looked after though I noticed that several of the other contractors did not fair so well. I have often wondered what these guys put down as their equivalent military rank!
Almost by return I had a reply asking me for my ""Military Rank Equivalent" as the word civilian was not good enough. As time was pressing I asked my secretary to find out what they needed and she became even more confused than I was. So I contacted our HR function who in turn contacted the parent company HR function in the States. Eventually I had a conversation with a nice chap from HR, USA who suggested I put down "Colonel". His reasoning was that "they don't tend to argue about status with foreign colonels".
Whilst on the trip I was really well looked after though I noticed that several of the other contractors did not fair so well. I have often wondered what these guys put down as their equivalent military rank!
Almost three decades back I was employed by a British subsidiary of a US arms manufacturer to develop a product for the Star Wars programme. Eventually the system all came together and it was time to carry out a live function test in the States. I was required to attend along with many other civilian staff from other contractors. I filled in all the necessary paperwork and where it asked for my rank I put "civilian" and sent it off.
Almost by return I had a reply asking me for my ""Military Rank Equivalent" as the word civilian was not good enough. As time was pressing I asked my secretary to find out what they needed and she became even more confused than I was. So I contacted our HR function who in turn contacted the parent company HR function in the States. Eventually I had a conversation with a nice chap from HR, USA who suggested I put down "Colonel". His reasoning was that "they don't tend to argue about status with foreign colonels".
Whilst on the trip I was really well looked after though I noticed that several of the other contractors did not fair so well. I have often wondered what these guys put down as their equivalent military rank!
Almost by return I had a reply asking me for my ""Military Rank Equivalent" as the word civilian was not good enough. As time was pressing I asked my secretary to find out what they needed and she became even more confused than I was. So I contacted our HR function who in turn contacted the parent company HR function in the States. Eventually I had a conversation with a nice chap from HR, USA who suggested I put down "Colonel". His reasoning was that "they don't tend to argue about status with foreign colonels".
Whilst on the trip I was really well looked after though I noticed that several of the other contractors did not fair so well. I have often wondered what these guys put down as their equivalent military rank!
DODGYOLDFART, I must tell my daughter that. She is a civilian on an o/s posting with our defence dept., and I'm sure the question will come up at some stage.
Interesting how confusion can arise with overseas ranks. Had a chaplain (rank of captain, 3 pips) who was often mistaken for for an American 3*** by Saigon bar girls.
Interesting how confusion can arise with overseas ranks. Had a chaplain (rank of captain, 3 pips) who was often mistaken for for an American 3*** by Saigon bar girls.
A very good friend of mine , sadly now deceased, was commissioned from the ranks and went to Washington on a liaison visit as a rather mature Flying Officer. He was bemused to discover how deferential his treatment was, especially at social events out of uniform.
He later discovered that" Fg.Offr." had been transcribed as "Flag Officer" by his hosts.
He later discovered that" Fg.Offr." had been transcribed as "Flag Officer" by his hosts.
Quite true DOF, I knew an ex-ranker Vulcan AEO named Colin ******, the name tag on his flying suit had the shortened version and read Col ******, he always got more respect than others when transiting the USA.
Diverted to Kinloss once after unexpected heavy snow in Lincilnshire - he was wearing a spare immersion suit which had no name tag, just 'Spare size nn, sock size 8' on a dinghy orange patch on the left tit. We had no other kit with us, so he was rather unimpressed when we grabbed him and changed the 's' in 'sock' to a 'C' - and added an inches sign. The occupants of the pub we found thought it was rather amusing though - especially the women!
When coming out of Incerlik HQ a whole sqn of the newly arrived Prowler aircrew were brought to attention for me by their CO. After returning the salute I went over to him and explained I was a WO so it was not required. In a soft southern drawl he replied. Hell, you've obviously done the time and have the best badge I've ever seen so in my book you deserve it.
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In '64 I was in Malawi with 4 32 Sqdn Canberras to do the flypast on Independence day. Myself and another corporal were putting the a/c 'to bed' for the night (still wearing our flying suits), when up marched 4 subalterns from the Kings Own African Rifles. They stamped to a halt a few yards away and giving an immaculate salute one said 'sir may we look round the aircraft'? Well we showed them round and eventually with another smart salute and a 'thank you sir', off they marched. On the way back to our residence we bumped into our CO. When we told him what had happened he laughed and said 'army subalterns saluting and calling my corporals 'sir', sounds about right to me'.
Last edited by goudie; 20th Mar 2017 at 09:14.
A dapper little Scots chap with a moustache - and an excellent AEO! More respect than the rest of our crew in the USA? Not really - but the Spams were often taken in when we called him Colonel.
Diverted to Kinloss once after unexpected heavy snow in Lincilnshire - he was wearing a spare immersion suit which had no name tag, just 'Spare size nn, sock size 8' on a dinghy orange patch on the left tit. We had no other kit with us, so he was rather unimpressed when we grabbed him and changed the 's' in 'sock' to a 'C' - and added an inches sign. The occupants of the pub we found thought it was rather amusing though - especially the women!
Diverted to Kinloss once after unexpected heavy snow in Lincilnshire - he was wearing a spare immersion suit which had no name tag, just 'Spare size nn, sock size 8' on a dinghy orange patch on the left tit. We had no other kit with us, so he was rather unimpressed when we grabbed him and changed the 's' in 'sock' to a 'C' - and added an inches sign. The occupants of the pub we found thought it was rather amusing though - especially the women!
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Master Aircrew
Never underestimate the effect of the full UK coat of arms on the shoulders of Master Aircrew. On a Red Flag detachment an off duty crew thought it a good idea to invoke the "visiting Brit" ploy to follow the Flight Eng and Loadie and play the Desert Inn golf course (now sadly gone). They were rebuffed at reception as being too low grade to grace the upper class sward of the club. The Captain ,Copilot and Nav were however informed that General Johnson and General ****** were already on the course. One can only wonder how the other players welcomed being addressed by "General" Johnson as "Bonny Lad" and watch him enjoy his essential "fag break" at the end of each hole.
I note that military resettlement encourages people to head off in all manner of interesting posts, expecting to land highly paid roles in organisations with which they have no direct prior experience. Yet suggest the reverse to the military and you'd think you were suggesting the end of civilisation as we know it :-)
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In the early 70s the RAF recruited some senior managers from RR. The CO on Brit Servicing line was one such chap, straight in as a Sqdn. Ldr I believe. It was just before I and quite a few other c/techs were talking voluntary retirement. I recall him remarking 'that all the chaps with any get up and go, were going!'
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil
...
The only thing I remember was the procedure for removing a misfire which had jammed in the rifling. ...
So what was the procedure? A long cleaning rod and a big hammer?
Originally Posted by Basil
...
The only thing I remember was the procedure for removing a misfire which had jammed in the rifling. ...
So what was the procedure? A long cleaning rod and a big hammer?
..
Last edited by NutLoose; 20th Mar 2017 at 12:11.
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In the early 70s the RAF recruited some senior managers from RR. The CO on Brit Servicing line was one such chap, straight in as a Sqdn. Ldr I believe. It was just before I and quite a few other c/techs were talking voluntary retirement. I recall him remarking 'that all the chaps with any get up and go, were going!'
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
It is the pay grade that you should work to
At Waddo a flt lt and a ch tech both applied for jobs with a computer company. They were both successful but the ch tech got a sqn ldr equivalent and she was somewhat further down the tree.
At Waddo a flt lt and a ch tech both applied for jobs with a computer company. They were both successful but the ch tech got a sqn ldr equivalent and she was somewhat further down the tree.
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Other than for social or ceremonial purposes I think there's limited benefit in trying to equate Police and military ranks given that they gain their authority from very different sources.
As for commissioning from the ranks I tended to find that the often quoted empathy for lower ranks etc was a very perishable trait.
It was always the police ethos of course, that everyone came from 'the ranks' this was viewed at essential because everyone, regardless of rank, is first and foremost the Queens Constable and they should know what that means and how to use that authority. The latest idea that people can be 'parachuted' in at a higher rank flies in the face of this.
A cynic may surmise that this is more about eroding the culture of policing that improving leadership.
There's a tendency to believe that Policing can be run like a business with measured inputs and outcomes and staff who can go from job to job as though on a production line. That's not the case. Policing is a job with a range of tasks as wide as all humanity can think of. An officer can in one shift go from chasing noisy kids out of a park to taking a Burglary report to giving first aid to a stabbed and dying teenager. If that seems fanciful to anyone it's not. I did it on 3rd May 2007 and it remains with me to this day. You don't just clock out from days like that. I struggle to see how many coming from an outside industry will get that.
As for commissioning from the ranks I tended to find that the often quoted empathy for lower ranks etc was a very perishable trait.
It was always the police ethos of course, that everyone came from 'the ranks' this was viewed at essential because everyone, regardless of rank, is first and foremost the Queens Constable and they should know what that means and how to use that authority. The latest idea that people can be 'parachuted' in at a higher rank flies in the face of this.
A cynic may surmise that this is more about eroding the culture of policing that improving leadership.
There's a tendency to believe that Policing can be run like a business with measured inputs and outcomes and staff who can go from job to job as though on a production line. That's not the case. Policing is a job with a range of tasks as wide as all humanity can think of. An officer can in one shift go from chasing noisy kids out of a park to taking a Burglary report to giving first aid to a stabbed and dying teenager. If that seems fanciful to anyone it's not. I did it on 3rd May 2007 and it remains with me to this day. You don't just clock out from days like that. I struggle to see how many coming from an outside industry will get that.