Commissioned from the ranks.
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National Service in 1951, at Padgate told aircrew vacancies, volunteered, and AC2 became Aircrew Cadet with white flash in hat. 12 hours in Tiger Moths, then 60 hours in Chipmunk, then found could not fly Oxfords well enough for the Powers that be, and ended up a Navigator, and end of course became fully commissioned Pilot Officer
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Exnomad (#82),
Seem to remember hearing that NS had, as a condition for acceptance for training as pilots, to undertake a period of R.Aux.A.F. service after NS. Any truth in this ?
Much good would the Oxfords have done you ! They were used as the lead-in to the Meteors and Vampires we were flying at the time (Harvards would've been a lot better). We had a NS chap on 608 Squadron who came through like that as late as 1954. Heard about him many years later as a 1st/off on BA 747s.
Danny.
Seem to remember hearing that NS had, as a condition for acceptance for training as pilots, to undertake a period of R.Aux.A.F. service after NS. Any truth in this ?
Much good would the Oxfords have done you ! They were used as the lead-in to the Meteors and Vampires we were flying at the time (Harvards would've been a lot better). We had a NS chap on 608 Squadron who came through like that as late as 1954. Heard about him many years later as a 1st/off on BA 747s.
Danny.
Seem to remember hearing that NS had, as a condition for acceptance for training as pilots, to undertake a period of R.Aux.A.F. service after NS. Any truth in this ?
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Pontius Nav (#84),
Yes, I suppose that was the official thinking. But when it comes to asymmetric handing, and never having flown an Oxford (or any other twin except the Meteor), would suppose that it would be as a pussycat to a sabre-tooth tiger !
The accident figures for the Meteor in the early fifties bear out the point. Oxford or no Oxford, the Meteor was a hand (or rather leg) ful for anyone, and too much for some !
Danny.
Yes, I suppose that was the official thinking. But when it comes to asymmetric handing, and never having flown an Oxford (or any other twin except the Meteor), would suppose that it would be as a pussycat to a sabre-tooth tiger !
The accident figures for the Meteor in the early fifties bear out the point. Oxford or no Oxford, the Meteor was a hand (or rather leg) ful for anyone, and too much for some !
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 29th Mar 2017 at 15:59. Reason: Get it Right !
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kenparry (#85),
Thanks for the confirmation !,
A shame ! They formed a large proportion of our fighter strength and were reckoned as efficient as regular Squadrons. But I suppose we couldn't afford to replace their Vampires with Hunters (or whaiever).
End of an era !
Danny.
Thanks for the confirmation !,
... which, among other things, disbanded all the (20?) R Aux A F fighter units....
End of an era !
Danny.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Danny which raises the question, how many aircraft crashed in practice asymmetric compared with the number of actual asymmetric landings. Not just Meteor but Canberra, Vulcan and even Valletta.
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Pontius Nav (#88),
Can't answer for the rest, but I did my Meteor conversion at Driffield in January, 1950 (in the midst of the carnage).
The buzz was that asymmetric training had been done (even solo) with one flamed-out (it would be "more realistic" and encourage Bloggs to give of his best). Results were as you might expect. Then some bright statistician in Air Ministry (as then was) noticed that the accident rate per 10,000 hrs from this training alone exceeded the Derwent failure rate over the same period. ......
So, if we suspended "live" asymmetric training, and simply accepted that everybody with an engine failure would crash, we would still be better off. This Could Not Be: the fiat went out that in future the "dead" engine would in fact only be pulled back to Flight Idle (8,000 rpm as I recall). Happily this had come into force before I came on the scene.
The accident rate dropped (but was still horrendous - there was a Thread about Meteor Casualties a while back on this Forum) - perhaps the most spectacular being the Tale of the Middleton Ghost. This chap, having got it down very fast, and well up the runway, and realising that he was going to go off the end, elected to "give it the gun and go around". (Or at least, that is assumed as being the only credible explanation of what happened - he did not live long enough to tell anyone what was in his mind).
So although he banged both open, the "dead" engine (think it was No.2) was only slowly spooling-up while No.1 was up to full bore, he went roaring off across country to his right around the camp. Miraculously, he missed all solid obstacles until he got to the Officer's Mess. Now the long arm of coincidence is stretched beyond all belief.
His own room was on the ground floor on the outside of the West (?) Wing of the Mess. He went in through the window, then the great battering rams on each side went through the brickwork, the unsupported concrete lintel and a load of bricks "fell on his swede" * - and killed him
Note *: words of John Henderson, in the Tower at the time, later SATCO (Civil) at Teesside Airport. We had been Controllers together in Strubby years before.
Place is now "St. George's Hotel". Ghost is said to haunt West Wing corridors at night.
Bit of local colour, Danny.
Can't answer for the rest, but I did my Meteor conversion at Driffield in January, 1950 (in the midst of the carnage).
The buzz was that asymmetric training had been done (even solo) with one flamed-out (it would be "more realistic" and encourage Bloggs to give of his best). Results were as you might expect. Then some bright statistician in Air Ministry (as then was) noticed that the accident rate per 10,000 hrs from this training alone exceeded the Derwent failure rate over the same period. ......
So, if we suspended "live" asymmetric training, and simply accepted that everybody with an engine failure would crash, we would still be better off. This Could Not Be: the fiat went out that in future the "dead" engine would in fact only be pulled back to Flight Idle (8,000 rpm as I recall). Happily this had come into force before I came on the scene.
The accident rate dropped (but was still horrendous - there was a Thread about Meteor Casualties a while back on this Forum) - perhaps the most spectacular being the Tale of the Middleton Ghost. This chap, having got it down very fast, and well up the runway, and realising that he was going to go off the end, elected to "give it the gun and go around". (Or at least, that is assumed as being the only credible explanation of what happened - he did not live long enough to tell anyone what was in his mind).
So although he banged both open, the "dead" engine (think it was No.2) was only slowly spooling-up while No.1 was up to full bore, he went roaring off across country to his right around the camp. Miraculously, he missed all solid obstacles until he got to the Officer's Mess. Now the long arm of coincidence is stretched beyond all belief.
His own room was on the ground floor on the outside of the West (?) Wing of the Mess. He went in through the window, then the great battering rams on each side went through the brickwork, the unsupported concrete lintel and a load of bricks "fell on his swede" * - and killed him
Note *: words of John Henderson, in the Tower at the time, later SATCO (Civil) at Teesside Airport. We had been Controllers together in Strubby years before.
Place is now "St. George's Hotel". Ghost is said to haunt West Wing corridors at night.
Bit of local colour, Danny.
two 'dead' engines killed a Vulcan on the overshoot
Sqn Ldr/Wg Cdr Baker was the best flight commander I ever knew.
My father joined the RAF as a Brat at Henlow in about 1928. He was trained on instruments and radios and I believe he ended up as aircrew in that trade. This is a picture of the infant Fareastdriver with his parents circa late 1940.
What puzzles me is the brevet he was wearing.
Later on he was accepted for pilot training at a very late age, around 29/30 and went to Pensicola to train with the US Navy on both wheels and floats. He was commissioned and returned to do the Heavy Bomber Conversion Course and ended up on Coastal Command Halifaxs doing the Atlantic weather sampling.
What puzzles me is the brevet he was wearing.
Later on he was accepted for pilot training at a very late age, around 29/30 and went to Pensicola to train with the US Navy on both wheels and floats. He was commissioned and returned to do the Heavy Bomber Conversion Course and ended up on Coastal Command Halifaxs doing the Atlantic weather sampling.
But no WOP flashes on the arms?
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FED and PN,
I don't think that gives a true representation of the facts. I was a brand new co-pilot and arrived at Coningsby about a month before the accident and took a very real interest in what had happened. AFAIR there was no question of Wg Cdr Baker overshooting but the co-pilot did so because of the goldfish bowl effect of a starlit night. Wg Cdr Baker ejected with the controls column still in his hand as they found the feel relief button embedded in his left hand. Regrettably no-one survived.
ACW
I don't think that gives a true representation of the facts. I was a brand new co-pilot and arrived at Coningsby about a month before the accident and took a very real interest in what had happened. AFAIR there was no question of Wg Cdr Baker overshooting but the co-pilot did so because of the goldfish bowl effect of a starlit night. Wg Cdr Baker ejected with the controls column still in his hand as they found the feel relief button embedded in his left hand. Regrettably no-one survived.
ACW
That is fair does. The army introduced that some time ago I believe., RSM to Major.
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The NCA often put people through the kfs course to get much needed WSOs while they still have no training pipeline.
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Was he the Joe Matthews born in British Guiana whose family then went to Canada ?
I left in the mid eighties and in those days it was the norm that after commissioning from the ranks, you never went back to where you came from. This gave you the chance to establish yourself as an officer and to avoid any piss taking from your previous colleagues. Is this still the case in the present day, much smaller RAF?
In 22 years non commissioned service I knew of several ex colleagues who were commissioned but I only ever bumped into 3, 2 aircrew and 1 engineer.
In 22 years non commissioned service I knew of several ex colleagues who were commissioned but I only ever bumped into 3, 2 aircrew and 1 engineer.