Bodily Functions on FJ Ferry Flights ?
PN.
The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.
Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.
BV
The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.
Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.
BV
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
BV, do you remember the incident? It was in one of the flight safety mags, either I Learnt, or an Avmed article etc
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PN: I recall reading it in Air Clues so 85 or 86 most likely.
Remember it quite well as I used to read all of the 'I learnt about...' articles and this one was rather strange.
The Jag was performing a transit and after a few hours the pilot reported a feeling 'Like I was outside the aircraft, about a wing's length behind and to the right of the aircraft. I was watching myself. The aircraft felt as though it was balanced on a knife edge and input from me into the flight controls would cause the aircraft to crash'
Perhaps not the exact words but you get the gist.
I'll see if I can google anything
Remember it quite well as I used to read all of the 'I learnt about...' articles and this one was rather strange.
The Jag was performing a transit and after a few hours the pilot reported a feeling 'Like I was outside the aircraft, about a wing's length behind and to the right of the aircraft. I was watching myself. The aircraft felt as though it was balanced on a knife edge and input from me into the flight controls would cause the aircraft to crash'
Perhaps not the exact words but you get the gist.
I'll see if I can google anything
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PN.
The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.
Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.
BV
The phenomenon you allude to is called Break Off. It is basically where your brain suffers from a lack of stimulus (sensory constancy in this case) and it plays tricks on you.
Although I am not the Jag mate you refer to I can vouch for the unpleasantness of the phenomenon.
BV
It is a very interesting illusion/dissociative phenomenon.
If you have experienced it, and if you can, it would be very interesting to read your description of your particular version, and your response. Also how long it lasted.
If it is unpleasant for you to recall, please excuse and ignore my request.
RJTRJT
It's a long, sorry episode and this seems like an odd thread to mention it but I will anyway.
It's the sort of thing that people would have been afraid to mention a few years back and I felt the same initially but now I'll tell anyone who'll listen.
Basically during my previous tour (based in Canada) I developed a fear of flying solo. It festered for some time until I eventualy confessed during an annual medical. I had put it down to a fear of death after attending one too many funerals (Eggman's seemed to be the tipping point for me). So I turned up at the special place that we don't like to talk about and started down an unknown path.
After many sessions of talking and soul searching it became obvious that my trigger for my fears was Break Off. I could relate to the fact that the first time I had experienced it was back on the Jaguar (pure coincidence that it was on the Jaguar, it is not specific to this aircraft type) at medium level over the Med' on a hazy day.
I only noticed it very infrequently over the next few years but it came to a head in Canada. Vast, featureless airspace and relatively benign sorties (bouncing medium level intercepts when you fly in circles for several minutes waiting for the next commit) led to my brain wandering. It basically felt like the jet was going to tip over and I would start to panic. It's a very unpleasant feeling and completely irrational.
When we are more junior we are so busy just keeping the aircraft flying that we don't have time to contemplate life whilst flying. As you become more experienced this changes. The other problem is that as FJ pilots we are control freaks and we love to reason things out. My brain then rationalised that it was a fear of crashing (G-LOC specifically) and that as long as there was someone in the other seat I'd be alright. Luckily there were always spare and willing students to fill the seat. Sadly I was completely wrong and preventing myself from being cured.
Anyway, I finally decided enough was enough and over a six month period I learned what the problem was and how to deal with it. I can now fly solo several times a day. I would say I'm 99% cured. It can still happen but now I am aware of what it is I can give myself a stiff talking to and carry on. It helps to stay busy in the cockpit. Luckily in my current jet there are lots of screens to play with and the local topography is slightly more varied than my previous locale.
It can happen to anyone and at almost any time. The Docs have seen instances from pilots of all aircraft types and apparently long distance lorry drivers are particularly susceptible. It's the sensory constancy that does it. Busy brains need stimulus and when we don't get it we just start thinking too much.
If I had to bring out a major lesson from the whole thing it would basically be to steal a tagline from BT: "It's good to talk". If I'd talked about it sooner (sadly us FJ pilots are great talkers but sh1t listeners) it would never have snowballed into the big issue it became. When I eventually faced up to it the first person I spoke to was my wife. That alone felt like an enormous weight off my shoulders. It just got better from there.
So, in summary, BV went mental but he's better now. Mental health issues eh? It would never happen to you would it?
BV
It's the sort of thing that people would have been afraid to mention a few years back and I felt the same initially but now I'll tell anyone who'll listen.
Basically during my previous tour (based in Canada) I developed a fear of flying solo. It festered for some time until I eventualy confessed during an annual medical. I had put it down to a fear of death after attending one too many funerals (Eggman's seemed to be the tipping point for me). So I turned up at the special place that we don't like to talk about and started down an unknown path.
After many sessions of talking and soul searching it became obvious that my trigger for my fears was Break Off. I could relate to the fact that the first time I had experienced it was back on the Jaguar (pure coincidence that it was on the Jaguar, it is not specific to this aircraft type) at medium level over the Med' on a hazy day.
I only noticed it very infrequently over the next few years but it came to a head in Canada. Vast, featureless airspace and relatively benign sorties (bouncing medium level intercepts when you fly in circles for several minutes waiting for the next commit) led to my brain wandering. It basically felt like the jet was going to tip over and I would start to panic. It's a very unpleasant feeling and completely irrational.
When we are more junior we are so busy just keeping the aircraft flying that we don't have time to contemplate life whilst flying. As you become more experienced this changes. The other problem is that as FJ pilots we are control freaks and we love to reason things out. My brain then rationalised that it was a fear of crashing (G-LOC specifically) and that as long as there was someone in the other seat I'd be alright. Luckily there were always spare and willing students to fill the seat. Sadly I was completely wrong and preventing myself from being cured.
Anyway, I finally decided enough was enough and over a six month period I learned what the problem was and how to deal with it. I can now fly solo several times a day. I would say I'm 99% cured. It can still happen but now I am aware of what it is I can give myself a stiff talking to and carry on. It helps to stay busy in the cockpit. Luckily in my current jet there are lots of screens to play with and the local topography is slightly more varied than my previous locale.
It can happen to anyone and at almost any time. The Docs have seen instances from pilots of all aircraft types and apparently long distance lorry drivers are particularly susceptible. It's the sensory constancy that does it. Busy brains need stimulus and when we don't get it we just start thinking too much.
If I had to bring out a major lesson from the whole thing it would basically be to steal a tagline from BT: "It's good to talk". If I'd talked about it sooner (sadly us FJ pilots are great talkers but sh1t listeners) it would never have snowballed into the big issue it became. When I eventually faced up to it the first person I spoke to was my wife. That alone felt like an enormous weight off my shoulders. It just got better from there.
So, in summary, BV went mental but he's better now. Mental health issues eh? It would never happen to you would it?
BV
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The Docs have seen instances from pilots of all aircraft types and apparently long distance lorry drivers are particularly susceptible. It's the sensory constancy that does it. Busy brains need stimulus and when we don't get it we just start thinking too much
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
ExRadar, spot on. Exactly as I remember, especially the out of cockpit experience.
Pontius, re the frequency of nightly visits: docs say that provided there is no obvious problem they don't know beyond the normal hormonal changes at night. We're all different so what affects one may not affect t'other. Going often is much better than being unable to pee at all which is a medical emergency.
Please bear with us, Beagle. As Bob Viking says it's good to talk and David my urologist says that our generation is still inclined to keep the stiff upper lip and leave things until it's too late. His professor used to point out that when he studied in 1970 the dreaded C-word was forbidden, even in the Department of Oncology. Surely any discussion which enlightens, lavatorial or otherwise, can only be good?
Please bear with us, Beagle. As Bob Viking says it's good to talk and David my urologist says that our generation is still inclined to keep the stiff upper lip and leave things until it's too late. His professor used to point out that when he studied in 1970 the dreaded C-word was forbidden, even in the Department of Oncology. Surely any discussion which enlightens, lavatorial or otherwise, can only be good?
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In RAF circles of the 70s would that just be laughed off ?
Strange place RAFG in those days, they would have major investigations over the most inane things, while other things I would have called more serious were ignored.
Bob, your incident over the Med, was it in an Air Clues article? So glad it all worked out in the end.
Nutty
The 'incident' over the Med was effectively a non-event. I dismissed it at the time as just being tired. I know the one you're thinking of and it wasn't me.
For me it all started in earnest much later. I know I'm not the only one but not many people talk about it.
BV
For me it all started in earnest much later. I know I'm not the only one but not many people talk about it.
BV
Some of these ideas should probably be passed on to film industry electricians assigned to operate lighting on cranes, as here:
Less cramped. More public. It is bad form to cause localised rain.
Less cramped. More public. It is bad form to cause localised rain.
Thread Starter
I am not a doctor but I do meet with them occasionally.
After the age of 50 your PSA levels should be checked regularly, reduced flow and increased frequency is to be expected, but there are limits. Similarly, it's also necessary to let your urologist "take you out for dinner", and a colonoscopy is also a good idea.
Pulling a lot of g during your career can also give rise to what Robin Olds called the fighter pilot's disease, namely piles, but that tends to be rather more obvious and somewhat less serious - but arguably the most painful.
Sorry BEagle, I am trying to raise the tone a little in response to your feedback
After the age of 50 your PSA levels should be checked regularly, reduced flow and increased frequency is to be expected, but there are limits. Similarly, it's also necessary to let your urologist "take you out for dinner", and a colonoscopy is also a good idea.
Pulling a lot of g during your career can also give rise to what Robin Olds called the fighter pilot's disease, namely piles, but that tends to be rather more obvious and somewhat less serious - but arguably the most painful.
Sorry BEagle, I am trying to raise the tone a little in response to your feedback
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In the late 1960s I used to drive down the M1 in fog every Sunday evening over the winter period. I experienced the "Break Off" thing on a couple of occasions usually in the Bedfordshire area where fog was most likely and the M1 pretty featureless. It was not very busy in those days. It certainly made my hair stand on end and I did not feel I could talk about it in case I was going bonkers.
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ACW
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Yep. Driving distances after long hard days, featureless roads.
I had my experience along a dead straight banked/tree lined road, right out of the blue. It was the perspective of the two roadsides coming together that got me, as said, you feel like you are rising and moving behind the vehicle, every instinctive steering wheel movement seems to become magnified X100, bloody scary, most difficult to shake your head and break the sensation.
I had my experience along a dead straight banked/tree lined road, right out of the blue. It was the perspective of the two roadsides coming together that got me, as said, you feel like you are rising and moving behind the vehicle, every instinctive steering wheel movement seems to become magnified X100, bloody scary, most difficult to shake your head and break the sensation.
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Rummaging around the net I found this Australian report from 2007 on spatial disorientation and makes for an interesting read.
Section 2.3 mentions 'Break-Off' and 'Knife-Edge' phenomenon.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29971/b20070063.pdf
Section 2.3 mentions 'Break-Off' and 'Knife-Edge' phenomenon.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/29971/b20070063.pdf
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
By tenuous connection I guess we are still on bodily functions.
Now, twisting the original question which concerned output, what about input? I know that in very high temperatures we could get through well over a pint per hour of orange juice with the only output being sweat. We had plenty of space for cold drinks.
How do the FJ guys get on having deliberately dehydrated before flight, do you drink or sip during flight?
Now, twisting the original question which concerned output, what about input? I know that in very high temperatures we could get through well over a pint per hour of orange juice with the only output being sweat. We had plenty of space for cold drinks.
How do the FJ guys get on having deliberately dehydrated before flight, do you drink or sip during flight?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"Marveled At Tthe Gyrations"
An excerpt from one of CDR. Jack Woodul's highly enjoyable "Youthly Puresome" tales:
"On the road again, Puresome began to realize that the gallon of coke/coffee/Exedrin he had consumed as breakfast was saying, “Hi! Remember me?” from his nether regions. “No hill for a stepper,” thought Puresome, who gritted his teeth and concentrated on not wobbling around too much.
But as that great clock in the sky counted off another 1.0 of flight time, Youthly was fantasizing about hollow legs and trying desperately not to think about the wash of the waves below in the Golfo de Mexico. When his wingman noticed his lead was deteriorating, things were truly serious.
But the money the U.S. government had spent on survival training was not lost on Puresome. Inventorying the contents of the cockpit and wondering as to the waterproof qualities of his canvas nav bag, he happened to notice that his kneeboard radio frequency card was held in a zip-lock plastic sheath! Things moved smartly from here.
Quickly, he passed the lead to his wingman and advised him that he was going to move off from the flight to perform a control check. Seizing the stick between his knees and shucking the cards from the zip-lock, Puresome began the involved procedure of torso-harness, g-suit and flight-suit disassembly, as well as the search mission incident to the filling of the bag.
The rest of the flight marveled at the gyrations of the fighter undergoing rigorous control checking. Finally, it was done — the bag was safely sealed and stowed in a corner of the cockpit, and the flight suit, g-suit and torso harness were back in place."
"On the road again, Puresome began to realize that the gallon of coke/coffee/Exedrin he had consumed as breakfast was saying, “Hi! Remember me?” from his nether regions. “No hill for a stepper,” thought Puresome, who gritted his teeth and concentrated on not wobbling around too much.
But as that great clock in the sky counted off another 1.0 of flight time, Youthly was fantasizing about hollow legs and trying desperately not to think about the wash of the waves below in the Golfo de Mexico. When his wingman noticed his lead was deteriorating, things were truly serious.
But the money the U.S. government had spent on survival training was not lost on Puresome. Inventorying the contents of the cockpit and wondering as to the waterproof qualities of his canvas nav bag, he happened to notice that his kneeboard radio frequency card was held in a zip-lock plastic sheath! Things moved smartly from here.
Quickly, he passed the lead to his wingman and advised him that he was going to move off from the flight to perform a control check. Seizing the stick between his knees and shucking the cards from the zip-lock, Puresome began the involved procedure of torso-harness, g-suit and flight-suit disassembly, as well as the search mission incident to the filling of the bag.
The rest of the flight marveled at the gyrations of the fighter undergoing rigorous control checking. Finally, it was done — the bag was safely sealed and stowed in a corner of the cockpit, and the flight suit, g-suit and torso harness were back in place."