Serviceman threatened with knife outside RAF base
As a matter of historical record, before the Great War all senior NCOs walking out [in uniform] carried a sidearm [usually the bayonet]. During the Great War, soldiers at Home from the front carried their personal weapon and wore the sidearm This at least obviated the admin. of handing it in on the way home, and collecting it on the way back. Obviously a zeroed rifle swap is not a good idea.
As a civilian I would be DELIGHTED to know that some [or indeed all] service personnel off duty were armed. Whats not to like?
The Nice terrorism was stopped two miles in by armed police neutralising the threat. Imagine a similar copycat here, say Stamford. How long do we think an armed response team will take to arrive? And as and when the terrorist is taken down, the law officer is automatically suspended and the Complaints process begins.
Get real, Britain ............. the time for soft fluffy idealism is long past.
As a civilian I would be DELIGHTED to know that some [or indeed all] service personnel off duty were armed. Whats not to like?
The Nice terrorism was stopped two miles in by armed police neutralising the threat. Imagine a similar copycat here, say Stamford. How long do we think an armed response team will take to arrive? And as and when the terrorist is taken down, the law officer is automatically suspended and the Complaints process begins.
Get real, Britain ............. the time for soft fluffy idealism is long past.
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I don't believe it's 'soft, fluffy idealism' but the rule of law -isn't that part of what we're fighting for & what hopefully differentiates us from the terrorists?
Across the pond unarmed black men are being shot by the police whilst on the ground with their hands up, because officers are so nervous. Arming all service personnel at all times, even were there enough weapons to go round would inevitably lead to accidental deaths of innocent people. Even highly trained armed response units get it wrong sometimes (eg: the Brazilian electrician on the tube), the last thing we need right now is some tommy/erk or matelot blazing away at someone because that someone happened to be non-Caucasian & 'looked at me suspiciously'.
Across the pond unarmed black men are being shot by the police whilst on the ground with their hands up, because officers are so nervous. Arming all service personnel at all times, even were there enough weapons to go round would inevitably lead to accidental deaths of innocent people. Even highly trained armed response units get it wrong sometimes (eg: the Brazilian electrician on the tube), the last thing we need right now is some tommy/erk or matelot blazing away at someone because that someone happened to be non-Caucasian & 'looked at me suspiciously'.
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If more pistols were required, they really aren't all that expensive. The 25000 Glock 17s were GBP 9M. Say another 75000 were required, it would be about 25M, given the size of the order. Culturally however, it is unlikely to happen in the present climate.
Perhaps another way to approach this, is to allow servicemen to apply for the right to carry, through a very thorough training course and marksmanship exam. Make it impossible to pass without understanding the ramifications of shooting someone innocent under personal protection circumstances, and make sure they are proficient with the weapon. That way, those that feel genuinely threatened can be offered a route to a degree of comfort, and thus confidence. Lots of issues to be addressed, but terrorist abduction of servicemen changes things.
Perhaps another way to approach this, is to allow servicemen to apply for the right to carry, through a very thorough training course and marksmanship exam. Make it impossible to pass without understanding the ramifications of shooting someone innocent under personal protection circumstances, and make sure they are proficient with the weapon. That way, those that feel genuinely threatened can be offered a route to a degree of comfort, and thus confidence. Lots of issues to be addressed, but terrorist abduction of servicemen changes things.
QUOTE
Arming all service personnel at all times,
Not at all what I said, please read my careful words carefully.
The" last thing " that some of us want to see is terrorism on our streets, compared with which the very very occasional blue on blue has to be seen as a random and rare event, rather than a deliberate and hate-filled act.
Arming all service personnel at all times,
Not at all what I said, please read my careful words carefully.
The" last thing " that some of us want to see is terrorism on our streets, compared with which the very very occasional blue on blue has to be seen as a random and rare event, rather than a deliberate and hate-filled act.
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Seems very strange to try and abduct a serviceman in an area likely to have (armed) patrols with the Security state being 'Severe' isn't it?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels
If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?
I know we can't always look into the mind of a 'terrorist' however they can't be that ignorant of the risk of being caught that they'd wait on base rather than down a country lane ... can they?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels
If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?
I know we can't always look into the mind of a 'terrorist' however they can't be that ignorant of the risk of being caught that they'd wait on base rather than down a country lane ... can they?
Seems very strange to try and abduct a serviceman in an area likely to have (armed) patrols with the Security state being 'Severe' isn't it?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels
If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?
https://www.mi5.gov.uk/threat-levels
If they were waiting for a 'random' runner rather than a serviceman/woman or a member of a service family returning home, wouldn't you do it somewhere a bit more off base?
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I did mean 'random runner' as in 'random service person' runner, but of course silly me; the suspects thought it easier to abduct a fit male on a run, on a military base, rather than a not so athletic service person or family member strolling home didn't they! 
Re my earlier post #16, Mrs TTN and I did the weekly Tesco shop this morning and I didn't see anyone from Culdrose in uniform, so I'm guessing the "no uniform in public" edict has gone out countrywide across all three services.
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and one of them was "unbearded and wearing shorts" - stranger and stranger
according to the police there were a lot of people around by the local Costcutter - appealing for witnesses
Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?
BBC are saying "Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."
according to the police there were a lot of people around by the local Costcutter - appealing for witnesses
Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?
BBC are saying "Police say they can't rule out terrorism but they're also saying there are also other plausible alternative explanations."
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HH why take any notice of random cars as they pass, unless they're flying that black rag of a flag I would imagine that it was just part of the normal background mass of traffic that an airbase generates.
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Strilkes me that they haven't given any details of the car other than a "dark people carrier"- you'd have thought they'd have some idea of make and possibly the number plate?
It was a dark Ford Galaxy as mentioned in the link I posted 24hrs ago
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"Claims to have been attacked"
What you think he is making it up????
And I've never heard such a stupid idea as arming all service personnel.
Questioning the reports that one was clean shaven and had shorts on as strange!
What because he wasn't wearing baggy trousers a black top holding a Koran he can't be a terrorist?
What you think he is making it up????
And I've never heard such a stupid idea as arming all service personnel.
Questioning the reports that one was clean shaven and had shorts on as strange!
What because he wasn't wearing baggy trousers a black top holding a Koran he can't be a terrorist?
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"It was a dark Ford Galaxy" - I think the police statement on the BBC said "like a dark Ford galaxy......"
"What you think he is making it up????
"
The first ruleof policing is to trust nobody and check everything - regretfully all possibilities have to be looked at - there is a long history of people making things up to avoid consequnces of other actions, or looking for attention or........... the worst cases are firemen who set fires because of boredom or to show they can shine........
in a way I hope he WAS making it up - it would be a lot less worrying than establishing the fact that there are lunatics roaming Norfolk looking to target service personnel
"What you think he is making it up????
" The first ruleof policing is to trust nobody and check everything - regretfully all possibilities have to be looked at - there is a long history of people making things up to avoid consequnces of other actions, or looking for attention or........... the worst cases are firemen who set fires because of boredom or to show they can shine........
in a way I hope he WAS making it up - it would be a lot less worrying than establishing the fact that there are lunatics roaming Norfolk looking to target service personnel
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I'm with you on that one, Heathrow Harry.
It is not at all uncommon for someone, under mental duress (for whatever reason) to make such a claim.
I do, however, have confidence that the police are seriously looking at that possibility.
As an ex-serviceman, I do NOT agree with the idea that service personnel should carry loaded firearms on civvy street.
It is not at all uncommon for someone, under mental duress (for whatever reason) to make such a claim.
I do, however, have confidence that the police are seriously looking at that possibility.
As an ex-serviceman, I do NOT agree with the idea that service personnel should carry loaded firearms on civvy street.
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HH, yes of course the police have to look at every possibility, including the very remote chance the guy made it all up!.
However the fact that it is a stated aim of these terrorists to capture a service person or policeman is well established with three known plots already attempted and foiled by security services.
As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.
However the fact that it is a stated aim of these terrorists to capture a service person or policeman is well established with three known plots already attempted and foiled by security services.
As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.
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As for why Marham, why not? can think of no better place to do it.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.
Remote roads, lack of cctv and very slow police response time makes it a perfect place imo.