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The RAF and Brexit

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The RAF and Brexit

Old 10th Jun 2016, 14:58
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The RAF and Brexit

If I was to visit an RAF base and have a beer and a chat in the mess about the general state of the nation, would I find aircrew and maintainers split roughly 50/50 on the question of Brexit, i.e. along with the general public, or is there more of a definite "leaning" ?
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 15:35
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My daughter's and husbands are all In, two have just come back from Germany.

What we have seen in France, Spain, Germany, Cyprus and Madeira is bbc better maintained infrastructure and cheaper goods in shops. Goods in bbc shops are frequently cheaper.

You might say the our 350m/week, or 240m or 190m, would make a difference, but would the Chancellor improve UK to the standard we see in Europe?

25% of the VAT we pay is controlled by the Chancellor as is vehicle fuel, car duty, alcohol taxes, tobacco and no doubt others. Of course, while he could abolish all these DISCRETIONARY taxes he would need to make a corresponding increase in direct taxation.

IMHO we are being manipulated to believe the EU is responsible for many of our problems when it is really our own Government.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 15:50
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PN - how astute (IMHO)
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 15:51
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
What we have seen in France, Spain, Germany, Cyprus and Madeira is bbc better maintained infrastructure and cheaper goods in shops.
Whilst not arguing with your wider point, are you having a laugh!?

Cyprus and Spain better maintained infrastructure?!!!
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 15:53
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Spain always seems to have amazing promenades in its seaside towns.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 15:59
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Tourist, indeed not. Epi village used to be the preserve of goats. Now road, pavement and curbs all block paved. Street lamps all new, modern and uniform. Motorway from Paphos to Larnaca. Two modern airports. Spain, beautiful gardens in Cadiz, La Coruna paved frontage to harbour etc.

Admittedly these are probably EU funded infrastructure projects, but whose fault that we don't have the same? J bet the dead hand of British officialdom might have something to do with it.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 17:17
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator View Post
My daughter's and husbands are all In, two have just come back from Germany.

What we have seen in France, Spain, Germany, Cyprus and Madeira is bbc better maintained infrastructure and cheaper goods in shops. Goods in bbc shops are frequently cheaper.

You might say the our 350m/week, or 240m or 190m, would make a difference, but would the Chancellor improve UK to the standard we see in Europe?

25% of the VAT we pay is controlled by the Chancellor as is vehicle fuel, car duty, alcohol taxes, tobacco and no doubt others. Of course, while he could abolish all these DISCRETIONARY taxes he would need to make a corresponding increase in direct taxation.

IMHO we are being manipulated to believe the EU is responsible for many of our problems when it is really our own Government.
VAT-just one of those inconvienent truths Eh?
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 19:05
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Although not a cricket fan, Beefy Botham asked a question the other day, 'On the day of the referendum, 23 June 2016, if at that time UK was not part of the EU, would you vote to join?'
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 19:41
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Although not a cricket fan, Beefy Botham asked a question the other day, 'On the day of the referendum, 23 June 2016, if at that time UK was not part of the EU, would you vote to join?'
Who is his employer??? I ask that question as a bit of research into almost every major celeb who is an outer will very likely show that they are working for or are close friends with a very small band of people who are speculators or newspaper barons. These people don't give two S**Ts about the effects on the UK as long as it sells newspapers, allows them to make a Monopoly within the UK (which the EU rules stop) or will result in a hedge fund currency market attack on Sterling or the stock market just to make a killing after a Britex vote. As for my still currently serving friends on facebook, JR and Sgt, Mostly out. Above, mostly in. Army, all out bar one (Ex RAF, now Commissioned TA RE), Bootnecks all out and nothing from the two navy mates. Own immediate family (55 years combined RAF) very much in. Saying that, quite a few of the serving RAF guys are very quiet on the Subject.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 19:45
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I would urge EVERYONE to watch 'Brexit the movie' before they vote. It's on YouTube for all to see.

My opinion, I is that you are simply not well-informed if you just listen to politicians, you should take the well- made 'movie' into account. I am shocked how few people I speak to have seen it. It's worth a hour of anyone's time before they make the most important decision this country will make for generations.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 20:07
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Thing is, with the "young" this european employment utopia that they have been led to believe just doesn't exist, there are very specalised jobs, very well paid, BUT it's very much a closed shop.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 20:16
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MAINJAFAD. The same accusation you make of Botham could be made of 'inners' who are being bankrolled by investment banks who fear Brexit will make things trickier for them to trade.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 20:19
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Too late to be persuaded ... our Overseas Postal Votes have been posted
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 20:29
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Marly Lite, if you see who is actually behind Brexit the Movie, you will see its a pretty loaded piece of propaganda and not Independant or a balanced at all.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 20:37
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Plans - and you are surprised
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 21:00
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Plans. I realise it is not balanced, it simply presents some well-reasoned arguments. I have not seen anything for the other side of the fence that I am not able to pick gaping holes in.

I merely suggest though that people take the time to consider it before they make a choice.
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 22:48
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if you watch "brexit the movie", do spend sometime watching "brexit the movie - a swiss reponse".

it knocks a few interesting holes in it - below the waterline
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Old 10th Jun 2016, 23:08
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I don't know about Norway, never been there, but of all the countries of the world, the one I've been to the most is Switzerland. Love the place, fantastic landscapes, love the food, the public transport system is fantastic and my favorite chocolate by far is made there and not sold in the UK. They do however only have a population the size of London, a GDP slightly smaller than London and have massive immigration problem that has increased the size of the population by 25% in just over 10 years. They can have a referendum about anything every year and have almost successfully got themselves kicked out of the EEA when a referendum introduced immigration limitations.

Last edited by MAINJAFAD; 10th Jun 2016 at 23:31.
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Old 11th Jun 2016, 00:54
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A case to remain in the EU based largely on economic factors is unsustainable. Economic factors change, and anyway increased wealth does not necessarily bring more happiness or security. A case to leave based largely on fears of uncontrolled immigration is similarly flawed. Immigration can be controlled and when controlled is not damaging. The absolute key issue in this referendum, which will seal the future of our nation, is sovereignty and who ultimately decides what laws we are governed by.

Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, admitted that eurocrats 'obsessed' with the goal of a European superstate forget the people of Europe are not interested in the idea. Mr Tusk said the EU had 'failed to notice' that the goals of its officials differed widely from the ambitions of the people in different member states. EU politicians were responsible for creating 'a utopia of Europe without nation states' and that 'obsessed with the idea of instant and total integration, we failed to notice that ordinary people, the citizens of Europe, do not share our Euro-enthusiasm.'

It can't be made any clearer than that.
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Old 11th Jun 2016, 07:50
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Meanwhile, back to the original question by Fonsini.... I live in the O's Mess during the week at one of the largest RAF bases in the UK. From the increasingly frequent discussions over dinner and in the bar, my straw poll would put the aircrew at about a 60-70% in favour of leaving, probably with the younger end more keen on staying and the older age group more for leaving. There is only one engineer who socialises with our aircrew gang (not through aircrew snobbery, just because he's the only engineer who eats and drinks in the mess) and he is voting to stay. Take from that what you will.
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