Dad never said much about the war when he came back.
So moving these memories..
My Dad, for reasons that remain unknown, volunteered for the FAA in 1940 and was trained as pilot at Luton..I don't know which course he was on. During the invasion scare his training was interupted and he was sent down to Portsmouth to defend the port and was sadly blown up suffering a major head injury which hospitalised him for 6 months and eventually led to his medical discharge.
One day when I was perhaps 15 I saw a photo of a 20 or so young men in a drawer in my Dad's desk; on the back of which were written in line a series of names and underneath each name a date. Intrigued, I asked my Dad about it and he told me that this was the course photo with the name of each of the course members. The dates, he said with tears pouring down his face, were the dates of their deaths. They were all killed and he was the only survivor. The Irony is that being blown up in the Portsmouth blitz saved his life......and led to mine. He never talked about it again to me even when I asked him. I think his survivors guilt dominated the rest of his life.
One day when I was perhaps 15 I saw a photo of a 20 or so young men in a drawer in my Dad's desk; on the back of which were written in line a series of names and underneath each name a date. Intrigued, I asked my Dad about it and he told me that this was the course photo with the name of each of the course members. The dates, he said with tears pouring down his face, were the dates of their deaths. They were all killed and he was the only survivor. The Irony is that being blown up in the Portsmouth blitz saved his life......and led to mine. He never talked about it again to me even when I asked him. I think his survivors guilt dominated the rest of his life.
A friend of mine originally from Minnesota told me of his dad in WW2.
He was an electricians mate on a CVE - Escort / Jeep Carrier in the Pacific.
Tom said his dad didn't talk much about his service and as an Escort Carrier they were not designed to be in full battle like Enterprise / Coral Sea / Yorktown etc. Their role was to ensure that Fast Attack carriers had the planes required and to support invasions / provide aircraft for newly invaded islands.
On shore leave in New Zealand his dad took a bus from the city they were in way way out into the countryside just to be away from it all.
Stopping at a small village he talked with someone and he talked about growing up in Minnesota and about going fishing when ever he could.
A fishing rod mysteriously appeared and a suggestion of where the best spot was in a local river.
Plan was to spend hours there, if he caught a fish then good, but after less than an hour a man appeared reminding him that he was required to have a licence for fishing and he was responsible for checking them. His presence was known to everybody in the village.
Not knowing whether he had committed a major offence, he was then shocked when guy sat down beside him for a chat. After while got up to leave telling him "as it was first offense he would allow him off" and hopefully when he returns next time he buys one and shook his hand and left.
After a good days fishing he returned the fishing rod and relayed his meeting and got told, yup he saw you and came asking who you were, then decided he should go up and wanted to say hello.
He was an electricians mate on a CVE - Escort / Jeep Carrier in the Pacific.
Tom said his dad didn't talk much about his service and as an Escort Carrier they were not designed to be in full battle like Enterprise / Coral Sea / Yorktown etc. Their role was to ensure that Fast Attack carriers had the planes required and to support invasions / provide aircraft for newly invaded islands.
On shore leave in New Zealand his dad took a bus from the city they were in way way out into the countryside just to be away from it all.
Stopping at a small village he talked with someone and he talked about growing up in Minnesota and about going fishing when ever he could.
A fishing rod mysteriously appeared and a suggestion of where the best spot was in a local river.
Plan was to spend hours there, if he caught a fish then good, but after less than an hour a man appeared reminding him that he was required to have a licence for fishing and he was responsible for checking them. His presence was known to everybody in the village.
Not knowing whether he had committed a major offence, he was then shocked when guy sat down beside him for a chat. After while got up to leave telling him "as it was first offense he would allow him off" and hopefully when he returns next time he buys one and shook his hand and left.
After a good days fishing he returned the fishing rod and relayed his meeting and got told, yup he saw you and came asking who you were, then decided he should go up and wanted to say hello.
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What did you do in the Great War, Daddy ?
Raikum (your #61),
[quote]
My Post p.114 #1227...on "Pilot'S Brevet in WWII" may help:
This was qualified by my p.126 #2504:
Hope this may explain your father's motives.
Danny42C.
[quote]
...So moving these memories..My Dad, for reasons that remain unknown, volunteered for the FAA in 1940 and was trained as pilot at Luton.....
... So, with Churchill's words ringing in their ears, just about every red-blooded young man in Britain (and the Empire), with School Certificate and in the age group (17 and a half to 23) flocked to volunteer as RAF aircrew. I was one of them. All wanted to be pilots, of course. There would be many hurdles ahead: it was reckoned that only 2% of all original applicants got to wear the coveted double wing. People were almost down on their knees to get into the RAF, it could afford to be fussy. Most of the rejections were in the first phase...
...Second thoughts.
Now that the end of my training was in sight, and before I finish with Hawarden, I think it might be useful for me, and hopefully interesting to you, for me to look over the last fifteen months for some loose ends I've left, and for things left unsaid which perhaps ought to have ben said.
To begin wth, why did I volunteer for the RAF in the first place? Patriotism is almost a dirty word today, but that was at the heart of it. Of course we were thrilled to have the chance to learn to fly for free (what youngster, even today, wouldn't be?) But deep down we all knew that this was a job which had to be done, and we young men of our generation, who had the fitness and schooling to do it, must step forward, for there was no one else. We only had to look around at the devastation of our towns and cities, and the massacre of men, women and children in the Blitz. It was our duty to stop this, and we would be less than men if we didn't do it.
Having said that, I must admit that for me (and, I rather suspect, for many others, another less creditable reason may have played some part. We can all laugh now at Corporal Jones ("they don't like it up 'em!") and at the bloodcurdling yells of bayonet practice on TV. But the real thing isn't funny at all. Can you really envisage what it takes to thrust six inches of cold steel into another human being's guts, twist it so that it doesn't stick (doing still more damage), pull it out and then do it again and again (against all your civilised instincts?) I remember a terrible chapter in "All Quiet on the Western Front", where the German narrator, marooned between the lines in a shellhole with a French poilu, with whom he at first becomes friends, is forced by circumstances to disembowel his new "oppo". (Hitler banned the book in Germany as pacifist propaganda). As usual, Kipling has the words for it:
"I do not love my country's foes / Nor call 'em ''eroes - Still , / Where is the sense in 'ating those / 'Oom you are paid to kill?"
There was a way out: accept the risk of death for yourself, but volunteer for a technical arm like the Air Force or the Navy, where you will kill clinically, at a distance, where you won't see " the whites of his eyes". Was this a form of cowardice? Probably. All I know is, I take my hat off to the PBI, who had to do the dirty work.
I would like to hear what my fellow ex-war PPruners have to say about this..
Now that the end of my training was in sight, and before I finish with Hawarden, I think it might be useful for me, and hopefully interesting to you, for me to look over the last fifteen months for some loose ends I've left, and for things left unsaid which perhaps ought to have ben said.
To begin wth, why did I volunteer for the RAF in the first place? Patriotism is almost a dirty word today, but that was at the heart of it. Of course we were thrilled to have the chance to learn to fly for free (what youngster, even today, wouldn't be?) But deep down we all knew that this was a job which had to be done, and we young men of our generation, who had the fitness and schooling to do it, must step forward, for there was no one else. We only had to look around at the devastation of our towns and cities, and the massacre of men, women and children in the Blitz. It was our duty to stop this, and we would be less than men if we didn't do it.
Having said that, I must admit that for me (and, I rather suspect, for many others, another less creditable reason may have played some part. We can all laugh now at Corporal Jones ("they don't like it up 'em!") and at the bloodcurdling yells of bayonet practice on TV. But the real thing isn't funny at all. Can you really envisage what it takes to thrust six inches of cold steel into another human being's guts, twist it so that it doesn't stick (doing still more damage), pull it out and then do it again and again (against all your civilised instincts?) I remember a terrible chapter in "All Quiet on the Western Front", where the German narrator, marooned between the lines in a shellhole with a French poilu, with whom he at first becomes friends, is forced by circumstances to disembowel his new "oppo". (Hitler banned the book in Germany as pacifist propaganda). As usual, Kipling has the words for it:
"I do not love my country's foes / Nor call 'em ''eroes - Still , / Where is the sense in 'ating those / 'Oom you are paid to kill?"
There was a way out: accept the risk of death for yourself, but volunteer for a technical arm like the Air Force or the Navy, where you will kill clinically, at a distance, where you won't see " the whites of his eyes". Was this a form of cowardice? Probably. All I know is, I take my hat off to the PBI, who had to do the dirty work.
I would like to hear what my fellow ex-war PPruners have to say about this..
Danny42C.
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Dad never said much about the war when he came back.
Funnily enough, fighter pilots did talk about it in my experience. Bomber crew less so. Couldn't get Burma vets to say much.
I knew someone who fought in North Africa then all the way up through Italy. I took the trouble to ask him. He didn't say much apart from commenting on the poles. He hated them but he was in the SS.
He told me that they returned to Germany expecting to be defeated soldiers, defeated heroes but they were shipped on a tour of Dachau to show them what they were responsible for. He complained that it had nothing to do with him at the time. He and his comrades were fighting men. "Didn't always act honourably perhaps but then who did?" He was bitter about it and in denial all his life.
Where I was brought up, German POWs were allowed to work on farms. One of them married a local girl. He was depth charged. He hated gulls. Said they took out the eyes of survivors.
Funnily enough, fighter pilots did talk about it in my experience. Bomber crew less so. Couldn't get Burma vets to say much.
I knew someone who fought in North Africa then all the way up through Italy. I took the trouble to ask him. He didn't say much apart from commenting on the poles. He hated them but he was in the SS.
He told me that they returned to Germany expecting to be defeated soldiers, defeated heroes but they were shipped on a tour of Dachau to show them what they were responsible for. He complained that it had nothing to do with him at the time. He and his comrades were fighting men. "Didn't always act honourably perhaps but then who did?" He was bitter about it and in denial all his life.
Where I was brought up, German POWs were allowed to work on farms. One of them married a local girl. He was depth charged. He hated gulls. Said they took out the eyes of survivors.
Although i was in the RAF during the 70s & 80s, my contribution bares no comparison to what I've read here. I'm embarrassed to say we used to complain about our conditions.
I suppose a lot of people don't talk about what they experienced because they are not actually asked. I don't recall really asking anyone myself. I must make more effort.
My children have no idea what I did apart from working on aeroplanes. They don't know anything about the Cold War. Fortunately I've no horror stories to tell, but never the less what we did was important. I should tell them, though I'm not sure they would be interested.
I suppose a lot of people don't talk about what they experienced because they are not actually asked. I don't recall really asking anyone myself. I must make more effort.
My children have no idea what I did apart from working on aeroplanes. They don't know anything about the Cold War. Fortunately I've no horror stories to tell, but never the less what we did was important. I should tell them, though I'm not sure they would be interested.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
My old man was sunk by a Jap submarine off Java. He said they got ashore but he didnt say they were 37 miles out. I think they were picked up by a US Warship. They were landed and taken to a hill school. They managed to get on a boat to Australia and survived the passage.
He had the Italy Star, Burma Star, Pacific clasp, Atlantic Star and France and Germany clasp. I have no idea where he went to get them as his ship record doesnt cover any relevant convoys. He then went to the Pacific after VJ day and visited the bomb sites. He thought it wonderful and had no doubts of the correctness to the decision.
He had the Italy Star, Burma Star, Pacific clasp, Atlantic Star and France and Germany clasp. I have no idea where he went to get them as his ship record doesnt cover any relevant convoys. He then went to the Pacific after VJ day and visited the bomb sites. He thought it wonderful and had no doubts of the correctness to the decision.
My grandfather was in the RAF during World War 2; I know this because I have (somewhere) the paperwork he was given on being discharged. He was some sort of technician on radio equipment somewhere in north Africa.
Unfortunately, that's all we know about it, although presumably the RAF could look him up via his service number. He told stories about watching cats fight scorpions in the desert and claimed during lighter moments to have been awarded the Spam Medal and the Shelter Medal.
But no, didn't talk about it much.
P
Unfortunately, that's all we know about it, although presumably the RAF could look him up via his service number. He told stories about watching cats fight scorpions in the desert and claimed during lighter moments to have been awarded the Spam Medal and the Shelter Medal.
But no, didn't talk about it much.
P
Pontius,
I agree about the rightness of that decision - as horrible as it was, probably less people were killed (both Japanese and Allies) than would have been the case had the war been continued by conventional means. And I am also pretty sure very few POWs would have returned alive had not the Japanese been made to capitulate so quickly.
I agree about the rightness of that decision - as horrible as it was, probably less people were killed (both Japanese and Allies) than would have been the case had the war been continued by conventional means. And I am also pretty sure very few POWs would have returned alive had not the Japanese been made to capitulate so quickly.
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What did you do in the Great War, Daddy ?
Danny, ref your #63:
Quote: "There was a way out: accept the risk of death for yourself, but volunteer for a technical arm like the Air Force or the Navy, where you will kill clinically, at a distance, where you won't see " the whites of his eyes". Was this a form of cowardice? Probably. All I know is, I take my hat off to the PBI, who had to do the dirty work."
Yes Danny, you have got my baser motives in going for aircrew dead right! Of course there was also a (reasonably) strong element of wanting to do the ‘right thing’, but I too certainly found the idea of close combat distinctly unappealing nor I did not fancy the idea of being sunk – never mind being prone to seasickness anyway. Above all, the prospect of being taught to fly while getting paid at the same time was a distinct plus.
Totally concur with your view of the PBI, who always get the short straw in any war that’s going.
harrym
Quote: "There was a way out: accept the risk of death for yourself, but volunteer for a technical arm like the Air Force or the Navy, where you will kill clinically, at a distance, where you won't see " the whites of his eyes". Was this a form of cowardice? Probably. All I know is, I take my hat off to the PBI, who had to do the dirty work."
Yes Danny, you have got my baser motives in going for aircrew dead right! Of course there was also a (reasonably) strong element of wanting to do the ‘right thing’, but I too certainly found the idea of close combat distinctly unappealing nor I did not fancy the idea of being sunk – never mind being prone to seasickness anyway. Above all, the prospect of being taught to fly while getting paid at the same time was a distinct plus.
Totally concur with your view of the PBI, who always get the short straw in any war that’s going.
harrym
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What did you do in the Great War, Daddy ?
Pontius Navigator (your #66) and Bergerie1 (#68),
Nor had I (I was in India at the time). The casualties (Allied and Japanese civilian) of a seaborne invasion of Japan would have far exceeded even the horrific total caused by the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese home armies would certainly have fought to the last man and the last round. I had a personal interest - one of the Allied casualties might well have been me !
Phil R (your #67),
Never heard that one before - but it would certainly have been worth seeing ! Who came off best, did he say ? For years after I got back I could not rid myself of the habit of shaking my slippers before putting them one - just in case there was a scorpion snoozing in the toe !
harrym (your #69),
Glad to see that I'm not the only one !
Regards to all, Danny.
...and visited the bomb sites. He thought it wonderful and had no doubts of the correctness to the decision...
Phil R (your #67),
...He told stories about watching cats fight scorpions in the desert...
harrym (your #69),
Glad to see that I'm not the only one !
Regards to all, Danny.
Gentleman Aviator
Wander00
Thanks for that - I've got some relevant books (somewhere!) too and will let you know of those. 
TTH - I have a couple of books that might interest you, I will dig them out and let you have the titles.
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Wander00, as your dad was in the London Fire Service during the Blitz
you may be interested in a book called "The Longest Night: Voices from the London Blitz: The worst night of the London Blitz" by Gavin Mortimer.
An excellent read of contemporary witness accounts with photos.
Available on Amazon (or other book stores)
you may be interested in a book called "The Longest Night: Voices from the London Blitz: The worst night of the London Blitz" by Gavin Mortimer.
An excellent read of contemporary witness accounts with photos.
Available on Amazon (or other book stores)
My father was a commercial artist and illustrator between the Wars. He joined the Royal Naval Air Service in the First World War in May 1918, initially at Greenwich, was transferred briefly to the Royal Flying Corps and then to the newly-formed RAF, where he flew De Havilland 9As and R.E-8s; luckily the War ended before he flew operationally. In 1939 he joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve and was called up on the outbreak of War, doing his training as a codes and ciphers officer at RAF Uxbridge.
In late 1939 he was posted to HQ 202 Group in Cairo, travelling there by sea; he was there for about a year and then moved to RAF HQ at Heraklion in Crete, flying there in a Sunderland. He sent home large numbers of photographs of Egypt and Crete, all with copious details on the back. He was most enthusiastic about the Cretan scenery and he did numerous sketches while he was there.
When the German parachute and glider-borne landings on Crete took place in May 1941 he was operating from a cave above the airfield and saw the strafing and landings on the airfield from a slightly safer spot than some. I have some notes he made of his activities on May 20th, the day the German glider and parachute assault began.
“Left cave at 8 a.m. with Trumble, F/Lt Howlett. Joined near Heraklion by pilots without aircraft (and therefore off duty), Bennett …….. in car for Hissaria (Messara?) area. Had been all night at . (cave?) with Steele and other cy. offs. (who slept there for safety). Though warned that attack might come had no reason to suppose imminent tho’ bombing fairly heavy during night.
Heard later from cy. off. of Black Watch at Warburg that they (in their HQ cave 50 yards from ours) knew attack expected May 20th. F/Lt Babcock (of Maleme area) also
knew of impending attack expected May 20th – why had not Cania notified us?
Maleme appears to have been unaware since Groom at Athens reported to have shown cyphers etc. captured there to Lewis Daly (?)
Other ranks from ‘drome allowed into Heraklion during afternoon of 20th (with arms), so it appears no-one there expecting anything. No messages rec’d up to say 2.00 p.m. F/Lt Cooper assumed duties in Trumble’s absence. Yet Deakin en route for Cania stopped before reaching Rethimno & told that place in Goon hands, returning to Herak. Found it under fire.
At Aja Dekka (?) found Argyle & Suth. in evident state of readiness and anticipation. On way there we stopped to inspect possible landing strip sites. At A.D. inspected several though later on arrival of Deak. and Martin (?) Trumble refused to show them selected (?) site, giving me the impression that they had already been given particulars of it.
After lunch at A.D. we went 4 or 5 miles west still looking for sites. About 2.30 we began return to Herak, but had not gone far when we were suddenly attacked by e. aircraft (at about 800 ft.). Proceeded on way after their passing, having stopped and left car to take cover ‘neath trees, but in hills NE of A.D. were again attacked and had to take cover. A mile or 2 further on, hurriedly pulling in under cover of trees by roadside to take cover again car stopped in swampy patch. On trying to re-start wheel slip etc. Took us an age to get her out (during which we were again visited by e. aircraft). Proceeded across bridge and down towards Herak. Stopped by roadside under cover for rest at about 4.30 for hour. To us came RAF lorry (with petrol tins cargo) towing another, reporting that they’d been bombed just outside Herak. by Goons and that parachutists had landed and retreat cut off All returned to Aya Dekka ….. HQ in olive grove just W. of village near St. Titus church ruins.”
He was eventually captured and flown to Athens under armed guard in a Junkers 52. From there he went by rail in a cattle truck across Jugoslavia and Austria to the Dulag Luft transit and interrogation camp near Frankfurt-am-Main. I think it was immediately after that that he was moved briefly to Marlag und Milag Nord, which seems odd as I believe the camp was for Merchant Navy prisoners.
I'll include some more details of his later activities in another post.
In late 1939 he was posted to HQ 202 Group in Cairo, travelling there by sea; he was there for about a year and then moved to RAF HQ at Heraklion in Crete, flying there in a Sunderland. He sent home large numbers of photographs of Egypt and Crete, all with copious details on the back. He was most enthusiastic about the Cretan scenery and he did numerous sketches while he was there.
When the German parachute and glider-borne landings on Crete took place in May 1941 he was operating from a cave above the airfield and saw the strafing and landings on the airfield from a slightly safer spot than some. I have some notes he made of his activities on May 20th, the day the German glider and parachute assault began.
“Left cave at 8 a.m. with Trumble, F/Lt Howlett. Joined near Heraklion by pilots without aircraft (and therefore off duty), Bennett …….. in car for Hissaria (Messara?) area. Had been all night at . (cave?) with Steele and other cy. offs. (who slept there for safety). Though warned that attack might come had no reason to suppose imminent tho’ bombing fairly heavy during night.
Heard later from cy. off. of Black Watch at Warburg that they (in their HQ cave 50 yards from ours) knew attack expected May 20th. F/Lt Babcock (of Maleme area) also
knew of impending attack expected May 20th – why had not Cania notified us?
Maleme appears to have been unaware since Groom at Athens reported to have shown cyphers etc. captured there to Lewis Daly (?)
Other ranks from ‘drome allowed into Heraklion during afternoon of 20th (with arms), so it appears no-one there expecting anything. No messages rec’d up to say 2.00 p.m. F/Lt Cooper assumed duties in Trumble’s absence. Yet Deakin en route for Cania stopped before reaching Rethimno & told that place in Goon hands, returning to Herak. Found it under fire.
At Aja Dekka (?) found Argyle & Suth. in evident state of readiness and anticipation. On way there we stopped to inspect possible landing strip sites. At A.D. inspected several though later on arrival of Deak. and Martin (?) Trumble refused to show them selected (?) site, giving me the impression that they had already been given particulars of it.
After lunch at A.D. we went 4 or 5 miles west still looking for sites. About 2.30 we began return to Herak, but had not gone far when we were suddenly attacked by e. aircraft (at about 800 ft.). Proceeded on way after their passing, having stopped and left car to take cover ‘neath trees, but in hills NE of A.D. were again attacked and had to take cover. A mile or 2 further on, hurriedly pulling in under cover of trees by roadside to take cover again car stopped in swampy patch. On trying to re-start wheel slip etc. Took us an age to get her out (during which we were again visited by e. aircraft). Proceeded across bridge and down towards Herak. Stopped by roadside under cover for rest at about 4.30 for hour. To us came RAF lorry (with petrol tins cargo) towing another, reporting that they’d been bombed just outside Herak. by Goons and that parachutists had landed and retreat cut off All returned to Aya Dekka ….. HQ in olive grove just W. of village near St. Titus church ruins.”
He was eventually captured and flown to Athens under armed guard in a Junkers 52. From there he went by rail in a cattle truck across Jugoslavia and Austria to the Dulag Luft transit and interrogation camp near Frankfurt-am-Main. I think it was immediately after that that he was moved briefly to Marlag und Milag Nord, which seems odd as I believe the camp was for Merchant Navy prisoners.
I'll include some more details of his later activities in another post.
Wander00, as your dad was in the London Fire Service during the Blitz
(Well, part-time, anyway. Too old, but volunteered and ended up working on fire boats).
Gentleman Aviator
Too old, but volunteered and ended up working on fire boats
And then one of them - Massey Shaw - went to Dunkirk and back 3 times......
My father had what could be said to be a "good war". He was an RAF pre-war regular and spent much of his time opening up RAF airfields in the west country.
An uncle, a Lancaster pilot, was killed on a Berlin raid - he, memorably, said that he didn't like flying at night.
Other uncles were in the RAF and the Army. One [ a gunner ] who came out of Calais in 1940, then went to North Africa, Sicily and Italy. He would never speak of his experiences.
Another [ older uncle ] was in WW1. With the arrogance of youth I once asked what it was like - he roared "WHAT WAS IT LIKE, WHAT WAS IT LIKE....!!" - I quickly shut up.
My father in law was an infantryman [ Desert Rats ]. He went through Alamein, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, back to the UK, then Normandy through NW Europe into Germany. For years afterwards he suffered "flashbacks". It took a great deal to get him talking about his experiences and, even then, the memories were of the humour.Interestingly he respected the Germans, thought little of the Italians and even less of the Yanks.
What I also found interesting was that they all, without exception, came out of the war as committed Labour supporters and it seems to have been their experience of the officer class, at close quarters, which made them like that.
An uncle, a Lancaster pilot, was killed on a Berlin raid - he, memorably, said that he didn't like flying at night.
Other uncles were in the RAF and the Army. One [ a gunner ] who came out of Calais in 1940, then went to North Africa, Sicily and Italy. He would never speak of his experiences.
Another [ older uncle ] was in WW1. With the arrogance of youth I once asked what it was like - he roared "WHAT WAS IT LIKE, WHAT WAS IT LIKE....!!" - I quickly shut up.
My father in law was an infantryman [ Desert Rats ]. He went through Alamein, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, back to the UK, then Normandy through NW Europe into Germany. For years afterwards he suffered "flashbacks". It took a great deal to get him talking about his experiences and, even then, the memories were of the humour.Interestingly he respected the Germans, thought little of the Italians and even less of the Yanks.
What I also found interesting was that they all, without exception, came out of the war as committed Labour supporters and it seems to have been their experience of the officer class, at close quarters, which made them like that.
TTH (and others)
Books are
The Longest Night (10/11 May 1941 (Pub 2005) - the "City" Blitz - ISTR it was a night of an equinoctal low Spring Tide, and there were huge problems getting water to the appliances, which is where the fire boats came in!
Firemen at War 1981 by Neil Wallington
Fire! Fire! (First Pub 1944) by Jack While
All interesting stuff. Unfortunately there are few records of the Fire Brigade and firemen and women, in London at least, as ironically the records were destroyed by fire!
interestingly, and for me amazing, my Mum who at the start of the war was 28, and was very slight, and short in stature, was a Firewatcher, and used to go round putting out incendiaries that fell in Pinner and Eastcote - and all I recall is a slightly nervous woman who would not say boo to a goose. Clearly there was some steel there somewhere!
Books are
The Longest Night (10/11 May 1941 (Pub 2005) - the "City" Blitz - ISTR it was a night of an equinoctal low Spring Tide, and there were huge problems getting water to the appliances, which is where the fire boats came in!
Firemen at War 1981 by Neil Wallington
Fire! Fire! (First Pub 1944) by Jack While
All interesting stuff. Unfortunately there are few records of the Fire Brigade and firemen and women, in London at least, as ironically the records were destroyed by fire!
interestingly, and for me amazing, my Mum who at the start of the war was 28, and was very slight, and short in stature, was a Firewatcher, and used to go round putting out incendiaries that fell in Pinner and Eastcote - and all I recall is a slightly nervous woman who would not say boo to a goose. Clearly there was some steel there somewhere!
Pontius Navigator (your #66) and Bergerie1 (#68),
Nor had I (I was in India at the time). The casualties (Allied and Japanese civilian) of a seaborne invasion of Japan would have far exceeded even the horrific total caused by the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese home armies would certainly have fought to the last man and the last round. I had a personal interest - one of the Allied casualties might well have been me !
Nor had I (I was in India at the time). The casualties (Allied and Japanese civilian) of a seaborne invasion of Japan would have far exceeded even the horrific total caused by the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The Japanese home armies would certainly have fought to the last man and the last round. I had a personal interest - one of the Allied casualties might well have been me !
. Dropping those bombs likely saved millions of lives.
tdracer,
Not only the high level of casualties to be expected in the invasion, but also, all POWs would most probably would have been killed. See the link here:- https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...nese-1939-1945
This is what is said in the introduction:- "After the war, it became clear that there existed a high command order – issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo – to kill all remaining POWs."
Not only the high level of casualties to be expected in the invasion, but also, all POWs would most probably would have been killed. See the link here:- https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk...nese-1939-1945
This is what is said in the introduction:- "After the war, it became clear that there existed a high command order – issued from the War Ministry in Tokyo – to kill all remaining POWs."
Last edited by Bergerie1; 25th Jan 2016 at 18:38.