Russian SU-24 CVR
"do you seriously believe Russians would go to provoke them with a practically defenseless bomber (even anti-IR pods were not present)?!"
Yes, of course. Russia knew what they were doing and why - they set their own rules, lie about their application of others, and have an agenda all their own.
Why would anyone seriously believe that Russia have sent their airplane (deaf to Guard frequency) where they did in complete ignorance of Turkey's repeated objections and warnings and by "mistake". Oh, I know, the Russian forces have no knowledge of the electromagnetic spectrum, radio frequencies and the such.
Russia deliberately and precisely disrespected Turkey's sovereignty, so that some would argue about 17 seconds and a few kilometers and blame the one that was actually wronged. It was no mistake, no miscalculation and at the expense of the poor Lt Colonel and his family.
It's pure Russian (nee Soviet) behavior to sow chaos, lies and turmoil. Assad fits right into their fold as he welcomes Russia's slaughter of his own people, since he was losing the means to do so himself.
Hopefully the coalition, in spite of Russia's designs, can make progress against the ISIL for the sake of international security, but I see little hope for the population of Syria who remain one way or the other.
Yes, of course. Russia knew what they were doing and why - they set their own rules, lie about their application of others, and have an agenda all their own.
Why would anyone seriously believe that Russia have sent their airplane (deaf to Guard frequency) where they did in complete ignorance of Turkey's repeated objections and warnings and by "mistake". Oh, I know, the Russian forces have no knowledge of the electromagnetic spectrum, radio frequencies and the such.
Russia deliberately and precisely disrespected Turkey's sovereignty, so that some would argue about 17 seconds and a few kilometers and blame the one that was actually wronged. It was no mistake, no miscalculation and at the expense of the poor Lt Colonel and his family.
It's pure Russian (nee Soviet) behavior to sow chaos, lies and turmoil. Assad fits right into their fold as he welcomes Russia's slaughter of his own people, since he was losing the means to do so himself.
Hopefully the coalition, in spite of Russia's designs, can make progress against the ISIL for the sake of international security, but I see little hope for the population of Syria who remain one way or the other.
AreOut wrote,
Why do you think that the Su-24 wasn't carrying flares? See following for location of AAP-50 flare unit on Su-24.
Aircraft Resource at the FARC
Link to large image of Su-24.
http://quwa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/SU-24-1.jpg
Plenty of footage of Syrian Su-24 employing them during air strikes. It would be standard practice for the Russians to carry flares to counter MANPADs.
do you seriously believe Russians would go to provoke them with a practically defenseless bomber (even anti-IR pods were not present)?!
Aircraft Resource at the FARC
Link to large image of Su-24.
http://quwa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/SU-24-1.jpg
Plenty of footage of Syrian Su-24 employing them during air strikes. It would be standard practice for the Russians to carry flares to counter MANPADs.
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do you seriously believe Russians would go to provoke them with a practically defenseless bomber (even anti-IR pods were not present)?!
"Why do you think that the Su-24 wasn't carrying flares? See following for location of AAP-50 flare unit on Su-24."
because they were pictured without those several times on bombing missions, they carried those at the beginning, then after some time figured out they don't need them(or so they taught) and stopped carrying them
classic soviet complacency
because they were pictured without those several times on bombing missions, they carried those at the beginning, then after some time figured out they don't need them(or so they taught) and stopped carrying them
classic soviet complacency
AreOut,
I'm not referring to the optional external chaff/flare unit, but the internally flush mounted units.
The external unit is carried to give increased capacity but that still leaves the internal carriage units. These are flush mounted and either side of the fin.
Aircraft Resource at the FARC
Tactical Missiles Corporation JSC
I'm not referring to the optional external chaff/flare unit, but the internally flush mounted units.
The external unit is carried to give increased capacity but that still leaves the internal carriage units. These are flush mounted and either side of the fin.
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A recent statement by a Turkish official revealing detailed awareness of Russian Air Force sorties in Syria can be regarded as “official acknowledgment” that the operation to down the Su-24 was a planned step, Russia's Ministry of Defense said.
“When on November 24 the Turkish fighter jet treacherously fired a rocket at our Su-24, the Turkish General Staff was perfectly aware about when and where our two bombers would be carrying out their mission,” ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov told journalists on Wednesday. RT qoutes him.
The statement recently made by Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus in which he provides information on Russian sorties in Syria, “can be regarded as official acknowledgment by Turkey that the operation to destroy the Russian jet in Syria and kill Russian soldiers was a planned step,” he said.
Ankara’s awareness of Russian military operations in Syria confirms that all intelligence given to the US under the memorandum signed between the two countries and regulating the operations of their air forces in Syria was passed to the Turkish General Staff, he added.
The Russian Su-24 frontline bomber was brought down by Turkey in response to an alleged violation of Turkish airspace by the Russian aircraft. Both Russian and Syrian defense officials confirmed that the Su-24 never crossed into Turkish airspace, and was illegally downed in Syria. Putin described the Turkish attack as a "stab in the back" carried out by "accomplices of terrorists." One of the plane’s two pilots was killed by rebel gunfire from the ground after they ejected. The second pilot was rescued.
Russia's Ministry of Defense Say Turkey Planned Operation Against Su-24
“When on November 24 the Turkish fighter jet treacherously fired a rocket at our Su-24, the Turkish General Staff was perfectly aware about when and where our two bombers would be carrying out their mission,” ministry spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov told journalists on Wednesday. RT qoutes him.
The statement recently made by Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Numan Kurtulmus in which he provides information on Russian sorties in Syria, “can be regarded as official acknowledgment by Turkey that the operation to destroy the Russian jet in Syria and kill Russian soldiers was a planned step,” he said.
Ankara’s awareness of Russian military operations in Syria confirms that all intelligence given to the US under the memorandum signed between the two countries and regulating the operations of their air forces in Syria was passed to the Turkish General Staff, he added.
The Russian Su-24 frontline bomber was brought down by Turkey in response to an alleged violation of Turkish airspace by the Russian aircraft. Both Russian and Syrian defense officials confirmed that the Su-24 never crossed into Turkish airspace, and was illegally downed in Syria. Putin described the Turkish attack as a "stab in the back" carried out by "accomplices of terrorists." One of the plane’s two pilots was killed by rebel gunfire from the ground after they ejected. The second pilot was rescued.
Russia's Ministry of Defense Say Turkey Planned Operation Against Su-24
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
BBC: Russia-Turkey crisis: Sukhoi jet black box 'unreadable'
Data on the flight recorder of the Russian war plane downed by Turkey last month has so far proved to be unreadable, Russia's military has said. It said the memory chips from the Su-24 bomber downed on the Syrian border were destroyed or badly damaged.
The Russians had hoped to prove the plane never entered Turkish airspace, as claimed by Ankara. Work will continue to try to retrieve the data.
The Russian military representatives presented their preliminary findings in Moscow on Monday, after opening the "black box" on Friday in the presence of international experts.
Some 13 of the 16 chips had been destroyed, while x-ray tests on the others showed extracting information would be impossible using normal methods......
Data on the flight recorder of the Russian war plane downed by Turkey last month has so far proved to be unreadable, Russia's military has said. It said the memory chips from the Su-24 bomber downed on the Syrian border were destroyed or badly damaged.
The Russians had hoped to prove the plane never entered Turkish airspace, as claimed by Ankara. Work will continue to try to retrieve the data.
The Russian military representatives presented their preliminary findings in Moscow on Monday, after opening the "black box" on Friday in the presence of international experts.
Some 13 of the 16 chips had been destroyed, while x-ray tests on the others showed extracting information would be impossible using normal methods......
There are loads of radar systems recording tracks in that area, from multiple systems from multiple countries. Some of these feed into the same network and shared live, others are independent.
There is a very good reason why none of these countries have cried foul with the Turkish side of the story, even if one or 2 of those countries have no great friendship with Turkey.
There is a very good reason why none of these countries have cried foul with the Turkish side of the story, even if one or 2 of those countries have no great friendship with Turkey.
but how precise are those radars at such distance?! We are talking here about very minor violation.
I think it would be very hard for either side to conclusively prove the plane has violated(or not) the airspace, on the other side we have turkish admission the rocket hit the plane while it was in syrian airspace and we know where it fell...
they would have hard time proving the rocket was fired while it was in turkish airspace (and if it was at all)
I think it would be very hard for either side to conclusively prove the plane has violated(or not) the airspace, on the other side we have turkish admission the rocket hit the plane while it was in syrian airspace and we know where it fell...
they would have hard time proving the rocket was fired while it was in turkish airspace (and if it was at all)
