SU-24 Self Defence capability?

[TBM-Legend]

How does the SU-24 compare with a Tornado IDS?

[Buster15]

SU24

There is a lot of very useful information about this aircraft in Wiki. it is significantly bigger than Tornado, but has lots of design similarities. First flew at about the same time, 1974 and has swing wing, 2 man crew and twin engines. It may have similarities with the old GR1, but I strongly doubt it has anything like the capability of the GR4.

[ORAC]

Better comparison in size and role is to the F-111.

[KenV]

How does the SU-24 compare with a Tornado IDS?

The Su-24 is larger than the Tornado. The Sukhoi is more similar to the F-111 than the Tornado, right down to the side by side seating. As for combat systems, the latest Su-24M (Fencer-D and subsequent) has lots of modern defensive and offensive combat systems including helmet mounted sighting systems and is roughly comparable to the Tornado GR4. The M models are usually fitted with R-60 Aphids for self defense, and are capable of carrying and firing the high off boresight R-73 Archers. I don't think the Tornado GR4s ever got off bore sight AIM-9X or equivalent, but I'm not sure about that.

[Courtney Mil]

Well answered, ORAC.

Buster, it was also built as a F-111 rip-off and designed for similar capabilities. It has since been very effectively upgraded to bring it GR1 class capabilities and included TFR.

It's a somewhat underestimated piece of kit, but I would still choose a GR4 any day.

Edit: I see you beat me to it, KenV. Good answer too. GR4 can carry AIM-9 or AIM-132.

[KenV]

GR4 can carry AIM-9 or AIM-132.

Understood. But my question is can Tornado carry off-boresight AIM-9X and does the pilot have a helmet mounted sight to make use of the off-boresight capability of the weapon? The latest Su-24Ms do.

[Just This Once...]

AIM-132 can be operated off-boresight; it has the same seeker as the 9X but it is a much bigger stick and goes a heck of a long way.

[KenV]

I'm not asking about the missile's capability. I'm asking about the ability of the Tornado to carry that (specific version) of the misslie, including having a helmet mounted site/cuing system to make use of the off bore sight capability of the missile. Without a helmet mounted sight/cuing system, the missile's off bore sight capability cannot be used.

[Rhino power]

KenV, yes the GR.4 can carry the ASRAAM, no it can't take a HOBS shot with it as GR.4 crews don't have the necessary hat, which is only available to Typhoon crew I believe...

-RP

[Just This Once...]

Tornado HMCS.

[glad rag]

And that's just the Air Display Variant; wait 'till you see the Night Bomber version...



Barnes would have been proud.

[Rhino power]

Originally Posted by Just This Once...

Tornado HMCS.

Which the GR.4 crews currently still don't have then?

U.K. Wants Helmet-Mounted Cueing System For Tornado | Defense content from Aviation Week

-RP

[Harley Quinn]

RP, some of the comments below that article seem to indicate Tornado has had a Helmet Mounted Sight system for sometime, maybe it looks just like the thing JTO posted?

[Just This Once...]

Pardon?



Admittedly the photo is from the last conflict, but you get the idea.

[Stitchbitch]

HMCS? Bit of a grand name for ex-Jag and Harrier kit, good to see the Gr.4 crews getting some use out of it. The Russians had something similar operational from the early days of SU-27.

[Madbob]

Thanks for the feedback to my original question. Given the kit that the Russian crew probably had on board why did it not give them enough situational awareness to avoid the threat of a TuAF F-16 attack?


The wx was gin clear, CAVOK and surely the Russians/Syrians must have been keeping a track of them on a ground-based radar and so able to warn the Su24 crews "to get the hell out".


Was it complacency/over-confidence on the Russian's part not to expect the TuAF to fire?


MB

[Just This Once...]

I'd guess that the radar warning kit is probably sub-optimal compared to a modern AI radar & AMRAAM.

One thing is for certain is when you are the 5th aircraft to be shot-down in the recent airspace disputes between Syria and Turkey (RF-4, Mi-17, MiG-23, Orian 10, Su-24) you cannot claim to be surprised!

[mickjoebill]

Is it typical that the aircraft did not breakup after being hit by a missle?

Mickjoebill

[AreOut]

Was it complacency/over-confidence on the Russian's part not to expect the TuAF to fire?

yupp they didn't expect it at all, it was just a routine mission they did several times before and turkey was considered a partner, not anymore though

[Just This Once...]

So the repeated diplomatic warnings, the summoning of the Russian Ambassador, the warnings printed in the international press and the shooting down of the other aircraft wasn't enough?

Are they stupid, arrogant or both?