What's the point of University Air Squadrons?
Likelihood is that as he and his mate both want to join the RAF anyway they don't want to 'waste' a spot on the UAS with someone who's already convinced they want in. They'd rather use the space to convince people who otherwise wouldn't have thought about it.
Wrong, imo.
(MASUAS 05-08)
Wrong, imo.
(MASUAS 05-08)
muppet - By that logic, anyone sponsored through university would not be on the UAS, so I think you're off the mark.
OP - downsizer has a good point regarding a bursary. Your son can still go to OASC as a student without being on the UAS, and might win a bursary for the final 2-3 years of his degree. This would automatically get him onto the UAS where he could take advantage of the flying (with an emphasis on the out-of-term 'camps' due to the intensity of his studies). Could be awkward for the person who told him 'no' if he got in!
OP - downsizer has a good point regarding a bursary. Your son can still go to OASC as a student without being on the UAS, and might win a bursary for the final 2-3 years of his degree. This would automatically get him onto the UAS where he could take advantage of the flying (with an emphasis on the out-of-term 'camps' due to the intensity of his studies). Could be awkward for the person who told him 'no' if he got in!
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My son, whose Grandfather, father, God-father, uncle and great uncle were all at one time in the Royal Air Force over the past 75 years, wanted at first to also join the RAF. At age 18 he said to me, "Dad, do you mind if I don't join the RAF?" Natural reaction was to say, fine, your choice, "but out of interest, why not, given you've been nurturing these thoughts for a few years?"
"Well, dad, I might have to kill somebody and I'm not sure I could do that".
My first thoughts were 10/10 for honesty and integrity. I then said "Thank goodness you've come to that decision now and not just before joining a squadron that may be involved with that sort of operation."
End result, he went up to Newcastle Uni, joined the Northumbria UAS, had two terrific years flying out of Leeming, including being taught by one of his godfathers' Squadron QFIs and ended up with a 2:1.
It takes all sort . . . . .
"Well, dad, I might have to kill somebody and I'm not sure I could do that".
My first thoughts were 10/10 for honesty and integrity. I then said "Thank goodness you've come to that decision now and not just before joining a squadron that may be involved with that sort of operation."
End result, he went up to Newcastle Uni, joined the Northumbria UAS, had two terrific years flying out of Leeming, including being taught by one of his godfathers' Squadron QFIs and ended up with a 2:1.
It takes all sort . . . . .
The UAS is deciding that they don't need to spend money on someone who already wants in.
It's an approach I have seen before.
JF:-
motn:-
Deciding instead to spend money on someone who already doesn't want in? I'm as confused as the OP, and it seems to me he has asked a very pertinent question. I admit though to being a BOF who has had to learn the hard way to regularly switch accounts, policies, and contracts every year to get the best deals. The best way to join a UAS would it seems be to study an "ology" and have no interest in joining the RAF at all...
"..do you mind if I don't join the RAF?... joined the Northumbria UAS, had two terrific years flying out of Leeming"
The UAS is deciding that they don't need to spend money on someone who already wants in.
Fwiw, in the case of the UAS I don't agree, I did engineering and still had plenty of time to put lots in to - and get even more out of - the squadron.
I shouldn't worry but unless your son looks like the picture below then he wouldn't get a look in at the Freshers' Fair UAS Stand in my experience. This is probably why so few end up actually joining the RAF at the end of their UAS time - although a few do get married to the Boss and the QFIs...
PS. My experience of UAS in the 80s/90s was that very few ended up at the top end of their flying training courses. It made me question why we bothered we UAS. However, having now read the line about it being Trenchard's plan in giving RAF experience to the great and good who wouldn't join the military but would go on to be politicians, financial gurus, businessmen, doctors, etc...
PS. My experience of UAS in the 80s/90s was that very few ended up at the top end of their flying training courses. It made me question why we bothered we UAS. However, having now read the line about it being Trenchard's plan in giving RAF experience to the great and good who wouldn't join the military but would go on to be politicians, financial gurus, businessmen, doctors, etc...
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HT, as an ex UAS Sqn Cdr x 2 I can understand your bewilderment. I expect things have changed somewhat in the last few years but the bottom line is still likely to be that there are a limited number of places on the UASs and the competition is extremely fierce to get in. Consequently each and every potential UAS member is scrutinised very closely and Freshers is only the first stage.
Without being there it is impossible to say how he "came across" but in my experience, if someone demonstrated a substantiated interest in the RAF/UAS at Freshers and was willing to at least try and make a commitment he would be considered a possible candidate and be placed in the "pool" for the next stage of medical and more formal interview. He would then be "scored" in order of merit along with all the other "potentials" and then it is down to where the cut-off line is, based on how many new students can be accepted in a particular year.
From what you say, your son would, IMO, have been in that second look pool unless he did not come over very well to those he spoke to. Believe it or not I have had students asking me if they had to have a sports car to join and had no clue about either the UAS or the RAF. That said, not much he can do now except try again next year, not much help I'm afraid but the moment has now passed.
Without being there it is impossible to say how he "came across" but in my experience, if someone demonstrated a substantiated interest in the RAF/UAS at Freshers and was willing to at least try and make a commitment he would be considered a possible candidate and be placed in the "pool" for the next stage of medical and more formal interview. He would then be "scored" in order of merit along with all the other "potentials" and then it is down to where the cut-off line is, based on how many new students can be accepted in a particular year.
From what you say, your son would, IMO, have been in that second look pool unless he did not come over very well to those he spoke to. Believe it or not I have had students asking me if they had to have a sports car to join and had no clue about either the UAS or the RAF. That said, not much he can do now except try again next year, not much help I'm afraid but the moment has now passed.
LJ:-
No doubt Trenchard had the right idea when being "air minded" was both very new and very challenging for those who would end up "running things". Since then you would be hard put to find someone today who hadn't savoured of the thrill of endless queues and delays at airports and had air very much in their minds, though not I grant in wholly positive ways.
As to saying no to the likes of the OP's son hankering to join a UAS, it strikes me as a very aloof response to say, "No thanks, you're too keen, we only spend money on those that aren't". As I inferred in my previous post, it smacks of the way that discounts, cashbacks, and reductions, only go to new business customers, the loyalty of the old ones being heavily penalised. If I can learn to be a perpetual new customer, I'm damn sure that the bright young things already have!
The OP says that his son will grin and bear it. Good man! Others though might take umbrage, and find a more welcoming institution. As the OP asks, what is the point?
Strikes me anyway that a JOTC (or UCCF? :-) in place of the three separate offerings might save Johnny Taxpayer and/or the Services some money, as well as promoting the purpleness that now colours all that is defence.
It made me question why we bothered we UAS. However, having now read the line about it being Trenchard's plan in giving RAF experience to the great and good who wouldn't join the military but would go on to be politicians, financial gurus, businessmen, doctors, etc...
As to saying no to the likes of the OP's son hankering to join a UAS, it strikes me as a very aloof response to say, "No thanks, you're too keen, we only spend money on those that aren't". As I inferred in my previous post, it smacks of the way that discounts, cashbacks, and reductions, only go to new business customers, the loyalty of the old ones being heavily penalised. If I can learn to be a perpetual new customer, I'm damn sure that the bright young things already have!
The OP says that his son will grin and bear it. Good man! Others though might take umbrage, and find a more welcoming institution. As the OP asks, what is the point?
Strikes me anyway that a JOTC (or UCCF? :-) in place of the three separate offerings might save Johnny Taxpayer and/or the Services some money, as well as promoting the purpleness that now colours all that is defence.
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I've always thought that the cadet forces should be amalgamated into a JCF for similar reasons. The inefficiency in replicating the Army brigade structure and duplicating the HQ functions many times over is depressing.
UAS as USAF ROTC
You talk about joint cadet forces, when I was in the UOTC, I had the pleasure of exchanging with the local UAS for a days flying with the good old Bulldog.
A year or so later on, when after MTQ2, had a carrot dangled in front of me by my wing CO to be JUO of the Wing, he asked me what changes I would like to see and the future of the UOTC. Likewise the same question popped up day the next day as I bumped into one of our newly commissioned 2lt who was in the other wing happened to be on my train to uni. He asked me my thoughts on the future of the unit so my response I would consider disbanding all the wings and everyone acts as whole. I was told the CO is wing friendly. In my head I was also thinking about more exercising with the UAS and URNU. TBH the only times we came across the others were either a mass lecture / brief by some members of senior folk or the Annual Mess Dinner where the OC of the UAS turned but not any of his crew.
Bearing in mind this was coming up to the late noughties and al three services was about to come into play with each other such as JHC and stuff.
I've said this before but was rebuked, so IMHO, the UAS could be of even more value if it was run like the ROTC programs in the states (most officers get their commissions through their local unis and colleges with ROTC programs )so those who have commitment and pass selection to the UAS (hell they have to go through AOCS anyway for selection) could follow a structured program resulting in being commissioned as P/O albeit in the reserves and transfer that across to full time commissions.
Any thoughts,
cheers
A year or so later on, when after MTQ2, had a carrot dangled in front of me by my wing CO to be JUO of the Wing, he asked me what changes I would like to see and the future of the UOTC. Likewise the same question popped up day the next day as I bumped into one of our newly commissioned 2lt who was in the other wing happened to be on my train to uni. He asked me my thoughts on the future of the unit so my response I would consider disbanding all the wings and everyone acts as whole. I was told the CO is wing friendly. In my head I was also thinking about more exercising with the UAS and URNU. TBH the only times we came across the others were either a mass lecture / brief by some members of senior folk or the Annual Mess Dinner where the OC of the UAS turned but not any of his crew.
Bearing in mind this was coming up to the late noughties and al three services was about to come into play with each other such as JHC and stuff.
I've said this before but was rebuked, so IMHO, the UAS could be of even more value if it was run like the ROTC programs in the states (most officers get their commissions through their local unis and colleges with ROTC programs )so those who have commitment and pass selection to the UAS (hell they have to go through AOCS anyway for selection) could follow a structured program resulting in being commissioned as P/O albeit in the reserves and transfer that across to full time commissions.
Any thoughts,
cheers
To be sure, to be sure I won't!
chopper2004, when I was a ULAS student in the late '70s, we also had the occasional exchange with ULOTC. Which was rather good because, before PC times, several of their girls were very highly placed in the annual 'Miss TAVR' competition!
For my sins I was 'Senior Student' in my last year and as such was invited to the OTC's Annual Dinner at their THQ. What an epic night that was - I found somewhere to sleep off the worst of it, but driving my MG Midget back to the Halls of Residence in South Woodford the following afternoon with a thumping hangover was rather less than enjoyable...
chopper2004, when I was a ULAS student in the late '70s, we also had the occasional exchange with ULOTC. Which was rather good because, before PC times, several of their girls were very highly placed in the annual 'Miss TAVR' competition!
For my sins I was 'Senior Student' in my last year and as such was invited to the OTC's Annual Dinner at their THQ. What an epic night that was - I found somewhere to sleep off the worst of it, but driving my MG Midget back to the Halls of Residence in South Woodford the following afternoon with a thumping hangover was rather less than enjoyable...
