Ex para arrested over Bloody Sunday massacre
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Ex para arrested over Bloody Sunday massacre
Sky Sources: Ex-Para Arrested Over Bloody Sunday
One personally thinks these things should be left to rest, it does no good to the ongoing peace process to dig back through these things and open old wounds and memories, while I accept that the families will not have forgotten,it must also open deep wounds in their minds too and cannot be good for them either.
One also has to ask will this be a two way process and include those terrorists given immunity over prosecution for murder.
One personally thinks these things should be left to rest, it does no good to the ongoing peace process to dig back through these things and open old wounds and memories, while I accept that the families will not have forgotten,it must also open deep wounds in their minds too and cannot be good for them either.
One also has to ask will this be a two way process and include those terrorists given immunity over prosecution for murder.
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You have to be careful about giving immunity with time - some people are still chasing the SS for example
My view if it was premeditated then there is a case, but if it was heat of the action I can't see what good will be done. Are they going to try and prove recklessness? Or criminal intention??
there are plenty of other current villains in N Ireland that need attention right now TBH
My view if it was premeditated then there is a case, but if it was heat of the action I can't see what good will be done. Are they going to try and prove recklessness? Or criminal intention??
there are plenty of other current villains in N Ireland that need attention right now TBH
When this latest enquiry was opened, I opined that all the soldiers called as witnesses should have replied to every question with an answer such as: 'not only is it a long time ago but my memory has been badly effected by my experiences since. I'm sorry but I cannot answer reliably your question'.
Had they all opted for dumb insolence, it would prove very difficult to complete the enquiry and, if as now seems possible, there are prosecutions, those accused could use the Ernest Saunders defence - remember him!
O-D
Had they all opted for dumb insolence, it would prove very difficult to complete the enquiry and, if as now seems possible, there are prosecutions, those accused could use the Ernest Saunders defence - remember him!
O-D
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For this arrest to take place more than five years after the Saville Inquiry reported on its twelve years of deliberation indicates to me that there is some murkier political agenda here.
This is particularly so given the delicacy of the current state of play in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Cui bono? Public interest and all that.
The cynic might wonder whether giving up an SNCO or junior subaltern from the Parachute Regiment now might not allow by way of exchange (in the political game) some future legal move to arraign a (former?) member of the PIRA who may or may not be currently involved in the political process.
Who knows?
This is particularly so given the delicacy of the current state of play in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Cui bono? Public interest and all that.
The cynic might wonder whether giving up an SNCO or junior subaltern from the Parachute Regiment now might not allow by way of exchange (in the political game) some future legal move to arraign a (former?) member of the PIRA who may or may not be currently involved in the political process.
Who knows?
I guess if I wrote what I would like to, I would get banned and the black Omegas would turn up - but given one of the Hyde Park bombers has a letter letting him go free there does seem to be a double standard operating
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I appreciate we are mostly military here and naturally our loyalties lie with our colleagues, but a little perspective and accuracy please.
None of ones who were unlawfully killed were carrying arms. None of them posed a threat and several of them were shot whilst fleeing. One was shot whilst assisting the wounded and waving a white handkerchief.
Let's not let loyalty blind us to facts.
Nope. Politics has zero to do with this. The police and the CPS decide on prosecutions, if it takes a long time to gather evidence so be it.
Justice has no expiry date...read that right here on pprune.
But they weren't all unarmed were they?
Let's not let loyalty blind us to facts.
or this arrest to take place more than five years after the Saville Inquiry reported on its twelve years of deliberation indicates to me that there is some murkier political agenda here.
Justice has no expiry date...read that right here on pprune.
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Time gap
I appreciate we are mostly military here and naturally our loyalties lie with our colleagues, but a little perspective and accuracy please.
None of ones who were unlawfully killed were carrying arms. None of them posed a threat and several of them were shot whilst fleeing. One was shot whilst assisting the wounded and waving a white handkerchief.
Let's not let loyalty blind us to facts.
Nope. Politics has zero to do with this. The police and the CPS decide on prosecutions, if it takes a long time to gather evidence so be it.
Justice has no expiry date...read that right here on pprune.
None of ones who were unlawfully killed were carrying arms. None of them posed a threat and several of them were shot whilst fleeing. One was shot whilst assisting the wounded and waving a white handkerchief.
Let's not let loyalty blind us to facts.
Nope. Politics has zero to do with this. The police and the CPS decide on prosecutions, if it takes a long time to gather evidence so be it.
Justice has no expiry date...read that right here on pprune.
Also, I recall that one pf the bodies was found with a nail bomb or nail bombs in their pocket. However, the
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^^
Not looking for a tit for tat exchange on what went on - there have been two inquiries costing millions to resolve the facts of that day. Nor am I being judgemental...were I to be so the usual pprune p1ssing contest would erupt.
I'm pointing out that this is merely part of the justice process in a civilised democracy - nothing more, nothing less.
And perhaps also that when picking fights to demonstrate where ones loyalties lie, the events of 30 January 1972 are a poor choice.
PS
And...there is very little need to be inaccurate; there is an ocean of evidence available...like
Not quite, you're talking about Gerald Donaghey (17) and the evidence conflicts.
The Saville Inquiry established the innocence of the victims, the false accounts of the soldiers and it resulted in a formal apology by the UK PM and murder investigation by the police. No doubt more will come out now. Personally, I would think the time taken is primarily because if I was the police, I would want my ducks firmly in a row before I took it to open court.
I'm out, but I'll leave the last word to our PM.
"But the conclusions of this report are absolutely clear. There is no doubt, there is nothing equivocal, there are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong." David Cameron PM
Not looking for a tit for tat exchange on what went on - there have been two inquiries costing millions to resolve the facts of that day. Nor am I being judgemental...were I to be so the usual pprune p1ssing contest would erupt.
I'm pointing out that this is merely part of the justice process in a civilised democracy - nothing more, nothing less.
And perhaps also that when picking fights to demonstrate where ones loyalties lie, the events of 30 January 1972 are a poor choice.
PS
And...there is very little need to be inaccurate; there is an ocean of evidence available...like
I recall that one pf the bodies was found with a nail bomb or nail bombs in their pocket
The Saville Inquiry established the innocence of the victims, the false accounts of the soldiers and it resulted in a formal apology by the UK PM and murder investigation by the police. No doubt more will come out now. Personally, I would think the time taken is primarily because if I was the police, I would want my ducks firmly in a row before I took it to open court.
I'm out, but I'll leave the last word to our PM.
"But the conclusions of this report are absolutely clear. There is no doubt, there is nothing equivocal, there are no ambiguities. What happened on Bloody Sunday was both unjustified and unjustifiable. It was wrong." David Cameron PM
Last edited by The Old Fat One; 12th Nov 2015 at 06:04.
^^
Not true. The Savile Inquiry proved itself to be a political stunt designed to appease Sinn Fein, PIRA and the Catholic minority in NI. McGuinness and the other terrorists were not compelled to give evidence, and all the troops would have been named and their families endangered if their lawyers had not won them anonymity.
This farce is showing that terrorism does win you political power after all. Daesh must be liking this on Stalkbook and asking PIRA for their top tips.
Not true. The Savile Inquiry proved itself to be a political stunt designed to appease Sinn Fein, PIRA and the Catholic minority in NI. McGuinness and the other terrorists were not compelled to give evidence, and all the troops would have been named and their families endangered if their lawyers had not won them anonymity.
This farce is showing that terrorism does win you political power after all. Daesh must be liking this on Stalkbook and asking PIRA for their top tips.
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How many of the fourteen who died were tested immediately for traces of a) cordite/projectile propellant anywhere on their hands, face and clothes and b) any evidence of attempts to remove such traces? In Aden it was a rush to get to the bodies before their own 'clean up' squads got to them, removed firearms and tried to remove traces, it does happen.
Training Risky agreed, a political stunt, as was the apology, appeasement, nothing more.
Training Risky agreed, a political stunt, as was the apology, appeasement, nothing more.
^^
Not true. The Savile Inquiry proved itself to be a political stunt designed to appease Sinn Fein, PIRA and the Catholic minority in NI. McGuinness and the other terrorists were not compelled to give evidence, and all the troops would have been named and their families endangered if their lawyers had not won them anonymity.
This farce is showing that terrorism does win you political power after all. Daesh must be liking this on Stalkbook and asking PIRA for their top tips.
Not true. The Savile Inquiry proved itself to be a political stunt designed to appease Sinn Fein, PIRA and the Catholic minority in NI. McGuinness and the other terrorists were not compelled to give evidence, and all the troops would have been named and their families endangered if their lawyers had not won them anonymity.
This farce is showing that terrorism does win you political power after all. Daesh must be liking this on Stalkbook and asking PIRA for their top tips.
Ultimately that is what you are saying.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that at all. Just as we are not calling for those terrorists who murdered countless others to be returned to prison to complete their sentences.
Unearthing the facts is healthy, as is applying an equal hand….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-soldiers.html
Unearthing the facts is healthy, as is applying an equal hand….
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-soldiers.html
…before being released by politicians.
Pursuing individuals after the inquiry on one side alone could be seen as divisive. There are Republicans who refused to give evidence or refused to answer questions who now serve as politicians. Do we expand the arrests to encompass them or do we try to move on?
Pursuing individuals after the inquiry on one side alone could be seen as divisive. There are Republicans who refused to give evidence or refused to answer questions who now serve as politicians. Do we expand the arrests to encompass them or do we try to move on?
…before being released by politicians.
Pursuing individuals after the inquiry on one side alone could be seen as divisive. There are Republicans who refused to give evidence or refused to answer questions who now serve as politicians. Do we expand the arrests to encompass them or do we try to move on?
Pursuing individuals after the inquiry on one side alone could be seen as divisive. There are Republicans who refused to give evidence or refused to answer questions who now serve as politicians. Do we expand the arrests to encompass them or do we try to move on?
Now IF convicted they may spend a night in Jail before being released on Licence but they have been brought before a court.
If someone eventually goes before a court it is unlikely they would serve time.
The sad reality is the people who allowed the Cluster
to happen and that is the Military and Civilian Leadership in control got off scot free.