Maritime Patrol Capability: The SDSR’s Wolf Whistle
Moreover, it is surely much better that the taxpayers and voters know that decisions costing billions of pounds have not been arrived at lightly or casually, since otherwise, defence spending will become a lower priority in the public mind. The services who explain their requirements and procurement priorities most clearly will be those who gain greatest public support, and politicians will find it easier and more popular to spend money on those programmes.
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My money's on CXX because it's seniority(not necessarily age) is greater than that of 201. 201 is also available as well so there could be 2 squadrons.
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Fedaykin,
I agree with using the American OCU to convert to type, but the serious tactical learning should be carried out on the Squadron in the UK. The UK MPA crews always remained far more tactically flexible during operations. That's also why we used to win the majority of the trophies and hang onto live 'contacts' longer.
With regard to squadron numbers, how about 42 Torpedo Bomber Squadron?
I agree with using the American OCU to convert to type, but the serious tactical learning should be carried out on the Squadron in the UK. The UK MPA crews always remained far more tactically flexible during operations. That's also why we used to win the majority of the trophies and hang onto live 'contacts' longer.
With regard to squadron numbers, how about 42 Torpedo Bomber Squadron?
It would be nice to believe that, RP.
But as it stands, it seems that whoever made this decision did so without access to information about alternatives, other than what they could read in the papers, because they didn't ask.
It also is apparent that unless a deal has been negotiated secretly and absent top-level government approval, the U.K. is now about to say to Boeing: "We've decided to buy the plane, how much does it cost?"
But I'm sure it will work out fine and tickety-ing-boo in the end.
But as it stands, it seems that whoever made this decision did so without access to information about alternatives, other than what they could read in the papers, because they didn't ask.
It also is apparent that unless a deal has been negotiated secretly and absent top-level government approval, the U.K. is now about to say to Boeing: "We've decided to buy the plane, how much does it cost?"
But I'm sure it will work out fine and tickety-ing-boo in the end.
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I am told that once a squadron number has been made into a reserve squadron , like 42(R), it cannot become a front-line squadron again. Don't know if it's still the case as I was briefed on this a few years ago during a squadron number plate debate at the MoD.
it seems that whoever made this decision did so without access to information about alternatives, other than what they could read in the papers, because they didn't ask.
RB
That's not true, what happens is a Reserve squadron, even if still in existence and flying or those at Linton or Valley, stops gaining "seniority". Only frontline squadrons add to their seniority, thus it becomes more difficult for a Reserve squadron to keep its place in the pecking order. Seems a bit harsh to me given that we decided to do away with OCU numbers and replace them with reserve squadrons, and many of the reserve squadrons fly the same frontline type as the frontline, but rules is rules!
That's not true, what happens is a Reserve squadron, even if still in existence and flying or those at Linton or Valley, stops gaining "seniority". Only frontline squadrons add to their seniority, thus it becomes more difficult for a Reserve squadron to keep its place in the pecking order. Seems a bit harsh to me given that we decided to do away with OCU numbers and replace them with reserve squadrons, and many of the reserve squadrons fly the same frontline type as the frontline, but rules is rules!
Proone -in other words the Nimrod got an AAR capability when it needed it , as for the chances of P8 needing AAR , never say never. The problem we might have is that a UK eyes only mission (admittedly not that often) would be more difficult. We would of course have exactly the same problem with air seeker.
Phil G -the USN relies on the USAF (and others) for AAR on a regular basis.
Easy -not all Voyagers have been delivered so a boom option on a couple would not be out of the question. Those ac need never be on the CAR so certification would not be a problem.
Phil G -the USN relies on the USAF (and others) for AAR on a regular basis.
Easy -not all Voyagers have been delivered so a boom option on a couple would not be out of the question. Those ac need never be on the CAR so certification would not be a problem.
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Great news but...
I am amazed the press hasn't latched on to the fact that this is a massive slap in the face for DPA and BAES. Essentially the Govt has confirmed that this is a capability that have always needed and will always need but which the collective incompetency of the MOD PE/DPA and BAES was unable to deliver despite having 14 years to do so. The prospect of ever building an aeroplane in the UK again seems rather distant though. Nevertheless, this is a time to celebrate the righting of a wrong.
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206 Squadron
Err, no it's not. 201(and 42 and 206) is senior according to AHB; 120, like 617 is a "special case"; being a special case does not make you senior.
Excellent news about the new MPA. Essential capability to be restored.
For a moment I thought it might stop everyone going on about it, but, NO. Now it's all about how it wasn't selected properly, what colour (excellent spoof thread, by the way!) and which Squadron number plate it will wear. As for squadron seniority "rules", the number plate chosen will more likely reflect CAS's choice. Who's rules are they? Who's going to tell him he can't have the one he wants? The only reason the same old favourites keep getting recycled is because VSOs once served on them.
For a moment I thought it might stop everyone going on about it, but, NO. Now it's all about how it wasn't selected properly, what colour (excellent spoof thread, by the way!) and which Squadron number plate it will wear. As for squadron seniority "rules", the number plate chosen will more likely reflect CAS's choice. Who's rules are they? Who's going to tell him he can't have the one he wants? The only reason the same old favourites keep getting recycled is because VSOs once served on them.
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I suspect that, rather like the RJ and F-35, the RAF colour scheme for the P-8 will reflect the US one with only minimal changes to reflect the UKs ownership. When every penny of the procurement process is scrutinised intensly the cost of changing the paint scheme significantly is simply not worth it.
As regards number plates the rules do not seem hard and fast, whether they should be is debatable. History and tradition are important and the RAF should cling to what it has. Genuine question: why is 120 (or CXX if you prefer) a special case like 617?
I'm surprised the thread hasn't asked the question as to whether we should keep the Poseidon name or change it to something else yet!
As regards number plates the rules do not seem hard and fast, whether they should be is debatable. History and tradition are important and the RAF should cling to what it has. Genuine question: why is 120 (or CXX if you prefer) a special case like 617?
I'm surprised the thread hasn't asked the question as to whether we should keep the Poseidon name or change it to something else yet!
Seems the civilians (even the sympathetic ones) are less excited about this than the RAF or ex-RAF people.
It's a very small number (not even a proper squadron's worth) of maritime patrol aircraft alongside an undertaking not to scrap some perfectly good not-very-old Typhoons that it would have been absolutely mad to scrap anyway.
At one point there were to be 21 Nimrod MRA4 and 138 F-35. 24 of the latter is barely enough to half-fill one of the two carriers, let alone replacing Tornado as well.
If this is the new level at which we all get very very excited, I'm still a bit depressed.
P
It's a very small number (not even a proper squadron's worth) of maritime patrol aircraft alongside an undertaking not to scrap some perfectly good not-very-old Typhoons that it would have been absolutely mad to scrap anyway.
At one point there were to be 21 Nimrod MRA4 and 138 F-35. 24 of the latter is barely enough to half-fill one of the two carriers, let alone replacing Tornado as well.
If this is the new level at which we all get very very excited, I'm still a bit depressed.
P
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Courtney - abolutely correct
After years of moaning on here people get the replacement of a high end MPA they've been praying for and instead of cheers all we hear is moaning - even last week it wasn't certain an MPA would figure in the statement
Sure 9 isn't very many but we can always buy extra's later -as we did with the C130, the C-17 etc
After years of moaning on here people get the replacement of a high end MPA they've been praying for and instead of cheers all we hear is moaning - even last week it wasn't certain an MPA would figure in the statement
Sure 9 isn't very many but we can always buy extra's later -as we did with the C130, the C-17 etc
The way ahead surely was to go abroad and buy something we know works.
The trick is now to make sure BWOS don't wheedle their way in and cock the whole thing up.
The trick is now to make sure BWOS don't wheedle their way in and cock the whole thing up.
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they've been praying for and instead of cheers all we hear is moaning
I'm already looking forward to my invite to visit 206 at BDN to have a good look round, followed yet again by a superb reunion lunch!