Turkey
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Turkey
An interesting article, with relevance to Turkish interests in the Middle East, and the possible future of NATO.
The Naqshbandi-Khalidi Order and Political Islam in Turkey
.............Under the AKP, official Islam and the education system as a whole has undergone monumental changes with far-reaching consequences. These changes, from the mosque to the classroom, are intended to enable Erdoğan and his entourage to shape and mold the worldview of generations of Turks. And that worldview, with some idiosyncratic twists, is based on the heavily anti-Western Naqshbandi-Khalidi tradition. In other words, Turkish official Islam and its education system are gradually being taken over by the Khalidi worldview, both in terms of political control and through newly indoctrinated cadres. Moreover, under the AKP, the Diyanet has become increasingly politicized. In numerous mosques, reports surface of sermons given by imams that support and glorify AKP and President Erdoğan.
In sum, recent education reforms have increased the religious content of the education system, leading many schools to be transformed into Imam-Hatip schools, to the point that 10-15 percent of Turkey’s middle and high school students now study in such schools. Their education, as well as the sermons of the mosque imams, have come to be increasingly marked by the beliefs of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi order, and politically aligned with the AKP. It is obvious that this will have profound consequences of a political as well as socio-cultural nature for decades to come.
Conclusions
...............The rise of the AKP has been paralleled by the rise of religious communities as political forces. These groups have played the role of voluntary associations in a Tocquevillean sense, filling the vacuum arising from the weakness of secular voluntary associations in Turkey. But unlike most voluntary associations in the West, these groups are motivated by a strong political agenda, which includes reshaping society in their own image.
In this regard, an important paradox should be noted. Traditionally, Turks have tended toward relatively liberal schools of thought in Islam, such as the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, which grants considerable space to the interpretation of religious law. By contrast, Arab and Kurdish Islam has tended toward the more Orthodox schools of thought—the Hanbali and Shafi’i schools of thought, based on the Ashari tradition, which are much stricter and allow considerably less room for interpretation.
Secularization efforts since the mid-nineteenth century have had an effect on Turkish Islam exactly contrary to their intent. They occurred in parallel with the rapid spread of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi order and its offshoots across Turkey, which brought an understanding of religion deeply colored by Arab and Kurdish traditions to the country. The creation of the Republic of Turkey and the radical policies of secularization in the field of education led to a breach with the more liberal religious approach that had formed the core of official Ottoman Islam. With the introduction of electoral democracy in the 1950s, the religious vacuum came to be filled by social movements that were almost without exception products of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi tradition, and thus brought Turkey more in line with Middle Eastern interpretations of Islam. Indeed, to a considerable degree, this explains the foreign policies of the AKP government, whose ideological character is radically different from the Ottomans. The Ottomans were seldom if ever motivated by religious zeal. What this suggests is that if Turkey’s religious, educational and political space comes to be controlled entirely by Naqshbandi-Khalidi ideology, Turkey will irrevocably become a Middle Eastern country...........
The Naqshbandi-Khalidi Order and Political Islam in Turkey
.............Under the AKP, official Islam and the education system as a whole has undergone monumental changes with far-reaching consequences. These changes, from the mosque to the classroom, are intended to enable Erdoğan and his entourage to shape and mold the worldview of generations of Turks. And that worldview, with some idiosyncratic twists, is based on the heavily anti-Western Naqshbandi-Khalidi tradition. In other words, Turkish official Islam and its education system are gradually being taken over by the Khalidi worldview, both in terms of political control and through newly indoctrinated cadres. Moreover, under the AKP, the Diyanet has become increasingly politicized. In numerous mosques, reports surface of sermons given by imams that support and glorify AKP and President Erdoğan.
In sum, recent education reforms have increased the religious content of the education system, leading many schools to be transformed into Imam-Hatip schools, to the point that 10-15 percent of Turkey’s middle and high school students now study in such schools. Their education, as well as the sermons of the mosque imams, have come to be increasingly marked by the beliefs of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi order, and politically aligned with the AKP. It is obvious that this will have profound consequences of a political as well as socio-cultural nature for decades to come.
Conclusions
...............The rise of the AKP has been paralleled by the rise of religious communities as political forces. These groups have played the role of voluntary associations in a Tocquevillean sense, filling the vacuum arising from the weakness of secular voluntary associations in Turkey. But unlike most voluntary associations in the West, these groups are motivated by a strong political agenda, which includes reshaping society in their own image.
In this regard, an important paradox should be noted. Traditionally, Turks have tended toward relatively liberal schools of thought in Islam, such as the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, which grants considerable space to the interpretation of religious law. By contrast, Arab and Kurdish Islam has tended toward the more Orthodox schools of thought—the Hanbali and Shafi’i schools of thought, based on the Ashari tradition, which are much stricter and allow considerably less room for interpretation.
Secularization efforts since the mid-nineteenth century have had an effect on Turkish Islam exactly contrary to their intent. They occurred in parallel with the rapid spread of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi order and its offshoots across Turkey, which brought an understanding of religion deeply colored by Arab and Kurdish traditions to the country. The creation of the Republic of Turkey and the radical policies of secularization in the field of education led to a breach with the more liberal religious approach that had formed the core of official Ottoman Islam. With the introduction of electoral democracy in the 1950s, the religious vacuum came to be filled by social movements that were almost without exception products of the Naqshbandi-Khalidi tradition, and thus brought Turkey more in line with Middle Eastern interpretations of Islam. Indeed, to a considerable degree, this explains the foreign policies of the AKP government, whose ideological character is radically different from the Ottomans. The Ottomans were seldom if ever motivated by religious zeal. What this suggests is that if Turkey’s religious, educational and political space comes to be controlled entirely by Naqshbandi-Khalidi ideology, Turkey will irrevocably become a Middle Eastern country...........
With every action, there is a reaction and my opinion (based on nothing more than living in Turkey for a few months) is that the secularisation efforts spent their force and the pendulum swang back but I wouldn't over rate the religious types or underrate the secularists. Witness the HDP's gaining support from quite a lot of non-Kurdish Turks which is quite revolutionary. I think the pendulum will do some more swings before coming to rest.
Given the history, Turks are extremely nationalist and therefore not particularly enamoured of any nation other than theirs. Nobody is more mistrustful and unfriendly than the Ataturk fans who hate the AK party. Britan particularly is viewed in a slightly odd way - they go on and on about Chanakkale (Gallipoli to us) but at the same time have a little admiration, thinking us less technically competent than the Germans but nevertheless incorruptible and powerful - just not necessarily friendly. They think the same about the US roughly and don't trust its motivations. Many people are inclined to believe the numerous conspiracy theories involving the US doing deals with Erdogan to help him stay in power. These sort of negative attitudes to the west don't make them one iota more in favour of an Islamic changeover. So I wouldn't read too much into the "western outlook" stuff.
I naturally associate with the anti-Erdogans because it's not possible to have much of a conversation with anyone else so I admit I have their bias and I can't be hopeless about the future because they are not hopeless. There are many battles to be fought and no foregone conclusion.
My impression is that all countries have a certain amount of stupidity which has to be devoted to something. Here it might be the odd ideas of the AK party that are soaking it up at the moment. In the UK it might be those Corbyn supporters or the UKIP (sorry that's just my personal opinion of course). One key thing to think about when you're trying to change things is this: what new form of harmless stupidity are you going to introduce to take over the thing that you are attempting to remove?
Given the history, Turks are extremely nationalist and therefore not particularly enamoured of any nation other than theirs. Nobody is more mistrustful and unfriendly than the Ataturk fans who hate the AK party. Britan particularly is viewed in a slightly odd way - they go on and on about Chanakkale (Gallipoli to us) but at the same time have a little admiration, thinking us less technically competent than the Germans but nevertheless incorruptible and powerful - just not necessarily friendly. They think the same about the US roughly and don't trust its motivations. Many people are inclined to believe the numerous conspiracy theories involving the US doing deals with Erdogan to help him stay in power. These sort of negative attitudes to the west don't make them one iota more in favour of an Islamic changeover. So I wouldn't read too much into the "western outlook" stuff.
I naturally associate with the anti-Erdogans because it's not possible to have much of a conversation with anyone else so I admit I have their bias and I can't be hopeless about the future because they are not hopeless. There are many battles to be fought and no foregone conclusion.
My impression is that all countries have a certain amount of stupidity which has to be devoted to something. Here it might be the odd ideas of the AK party that are soaking it up at the moment. In the UK it might be those Corbyn supporters or the UKIP (sorry that's just my personal opinion of course). One key thing to think about when you're trying to change things is this: what new form of harmless stupidity are you going to introduce to take over the thing that you are attempting to remove?
Just a last thought: my wife is a teacher so she is very concerned by all the things mentioned in the article. As I understand it the education system was pretty much created by those very western-influenced types at the start of Ataturk's period. I believe they actually learned building as part of their course - so they could go out to some area and build the schoolhouse before starting to teach.
Their attitude is extremely strong minded to my ears, and being a teacher is an important thing here - it gives me the feeling of the women's version of national service. You might get educated in a city but if you pass the very stringent civil service exams then you are likely to get sent out to some village in the back of beyond. I am actually posting this from one such place - perhaps not all that isolated but quite basic.
The general belief is that some religious types have been aided in getting through the exams and there are regular cheating scandals but I was still impressed at the effort to defend the civil service from the ignorant and lazy.
It is actually much more profitable to work in private schools but government service has great cachet here. I suppose it's hard to be fired.
Anyhow to come to the point, I think that there are quite a lot of people with a degree of commitment to doing education properly and although it can't prevent the AK nonsense I think there is some doubt about how effective its attempt to pervert things can be.
There have certainly been protests by the teachers about the increased hours of religious education.
Their attitude is extremely strong minded to my ears, and being a teacher is an important thing here - it gives me the feeling of the women's version of national service. You might get educated in a city but if you pass the very stringent civil service exams then you are likely to get sent out to some village in the back of beyond. I am actually posting this from one such place - perhaps not all that isolated but quite basic.
The general belief is that some religious types have been aided in getting through the exams and there are regular cheating scandals but I was still impressed at the effort to defend the civil service from the ignorant and lazy.
It is actually much more profitable to work in private schools but government service has great cachet here. I suppose it's hard to be fired.
Anyhow to come to the point, I think that there are quite a lot of people with a degree of commitment to doing education properly and although it can't prevent the AK nonsense I think there is some doubt about how effective its attempt to pervert things can be.
There have certainly been protests by the teachers about the increased hours of religious education.
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My impression is that all countries have a certain amount of stupidity which has to be devoted to something. Here it might be the odd ideas of the AK party that are soaking it up at the moment. In the UK it might be those Corbyn supporters or the UKIP (sorry that's just my personal opinion of course). One key thing to think about when you're trying to change things is this: what new form of harmless stupidity are you going to introduce to take over the thing that you are attempting to remove?
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thing:-
Or one of the most complacent? I believe that the German cognoscenti felt that Hitler and the Nazis could be controlled, but that in the meantime were a useful bulwark against the Communists and the Left. That "certain amount of stupidity" was to cost hundreds of millions of lives...
Must declare an interest though, as one of the stupid who support UKIP. It really depends on which is the greater stupidity I guess, UKIP or the EU's agenda to become a European Super State...
Probably one of the most perceptive posts I've ever read on Pprune.
Must declare an interest though, as one of the stupid who support UKIP. It really depends on which is the greater stupidity I guess, UKIP or the EU's agenda to become a European Super State...
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Really? Do you not keep abreast of current affairs?
Must declare an interest though, as one of the stupid who support UKIP. It really depends on which is the greater stupidity I guess, UKIP or the EU's agenda to become a European Super State...
thing:-
Indeed, and I used the EU to illustrate my point that one person's "stupidity" is another's defence against a perceived greater stupidity, which possibly compromises his take on the situation in Turkey.
I think the OP used UKIP and Corbyn to illustrate his point, not to push an agenda.
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I wasn't making comment on the greater part of his thread or any of his perceived political slant, just the part that I quoted. I happen to think his comment about each country having a certain amount of stupid and the need to be careful when replacing it was perceptive. How you define stupid is entirely up to you.
thing:-
And that makes it one of the most perceptive posts on PPRuNe? Random!
his comment about each country having a certain amount of stupid and the need to be careful when replacing it was perceptive. How you define stupid is entirely up to you.
Must declare an interest though, as one of the stupid who support UKIP. It really depends on which is the greater stupidity I guess, UKIP or the EU's agenda to become a European Super State...
I think Hitler doesn't apply to Turkey for too many reasons - there's no recent wartime humiliation, no economic disaster and the AK party has nothing like the level of support. Also Turks aren't Germans and have their own failure modes which are not the same.
I also contest the use of the word "complacent". It's different to explain that something is not a foregone conclusion from saying that one should be complacent. What I would say is that if you treat people as if you expect them to be an enemy then that is what you will eventually get.
Now this will upset you but I think one of the best things you could do to influence the situation would be to make it much easier and less brutally expensive for Turks to visit the UK and learn English and a bit about UK culture which they are interested in and ignorant of. That would buy you far more chance of helping the people who are likely to be positive towards the west and more influence than a squadron of helicopters in my opinion.
Thing, kind of you to say so, but I wonder if Voltaire would agree? 
t43562, I don't challenge your knowledge of Turkey, which is clearly greater than mine. I was merely trying to express my reservations about predicting the attitudes and ambitions of other countries or races. This country has already done far too much of that in recent history and rather spectacularly got most of it wrong. You will excuse me I hope if I am a little reserved in accepting your assurances that Turkey is a case of "nothing to see here, move along please".
As to making it easier and less expensive for Turks to visit the UK and absorb our culture, are you saying that we specifically target Turkey to prevent that? The "English" schools that proliferated here and were a cover for illegal immigration have been shut down, but AFAIK we haven't closed the doors to genuine tourists. The cost of course is another matter. Perhaps a word with Mr O'Leary?
t43562, I don't challenge your knowledge of Turkey, which is clearly greater than mine. I was merely trying to express my reservations about predicting the attitudes and ambitions of other countries or races. This country has already done far too much of that in recent history and rather spectacularly got most of it wrong. You will excuse me I hope if I am a little reserved in accepting your assurances that Turkey is a case of "nothing to see here, move along please".
As to making it easier and less expensive for Turks to visit the UK and absorb our culture, are you saying that we specifically target Turkey to prevent that? The "English" schools that proliferated here and were a cover for illegal immigration have been shut down, but AFAIK we haven't closed the doors to genuine tourists. The cost of course is another matter. Perhaps a word with Mr O'Leary?
Last edited by Chugalug2; 6th Sep 2015 at 12:02.
And I wasn't trying to predict them either but to point out that one should see as much as possible the situation as is so that one can take the right actions. Like in a garden you have to see what the positive opportunities are - which plants there are and how to help them grow.
There certainly are dangers here as everywhere and it's so overwhelming in a way that one wonders how civilisation can possibly survive. Even in the UK there is really a constant battle to keep the ship afloat and even though it seems like it is sailing on, I feel that it could still fall apart with some bad choices or at least be out of action and leave the world a more frightening place to be in. I have certainly seen civilisation go backwards and I fear all the time that it could happen again.
In a way this is why I think people with roughly the same game plan need to try to help each other even if they're not from the same country.
As for the UK there are some extremely expensive requirements for visas to do with trying to pre-charge people for use of the NHS. As far as I know this is exactly the kind of thing that stops university students and young people (who are the ones you can actually influence) from being able to afford to go.
People with English here get jobs in businesses that deal with the UK e.g. medical tourism from the UK to Turkey (not the other way you'll note) is one that I'm familiar with. This is the reward for their efforts in learning our language and it's a status symbol which everyone in the extended family knows about and is impressed by. It adds to the notes of discord when some other idiot gets up and says silly things about the west.
There certainly are dangers here as everywhere and it's so overwhelming in a way that one wonders how civilisation can possibly survive. Even in the UK there is really a constant battle to keep the ship afloat and even though it seems like it is sailing on, I feel that it could still fall apart with some bad choices or at least be out of action and leave the world a more frightening place to be in. I have certainly seen civilisation go backwards and I fear all the time that it could happen again.
In a way this is why I think people with roughly the same game plan need to try to help each other even if they're not from the same country.
As for the UK there are some extremely expensive requirements for visas to do with trying to pre-charge people for use of the NHS. As far as I know this is exactly the kind of thing that stops university students and young people (who are the ones you can actually influence) from being able to afford to go.
People with English here get jobs in businesses that deal with the UK e.g. medical tourism from the UK to Turkey (not the other way you'll note) is one that I'm familiar with. This is the reward for their efforts in learning our language and it's a status symbol which everyone in the extended family knows about and is impressed by. It adds to the notes of discord when some other idiot gets up and says silly things about the west.
Turkey was an important and stalwart ally in the Cold War, fighting alongside us as long ago as the Korean War. In many ways the World was a more orderly place then, being divided up into East and West, with "client" states doing in the main as bid by their respective Super Powers. All that is now changed, enemies becoming friends and vice versa, not unlike the changes that happened immediately post WW2. I don't classify Turkey, still in NATO, in any way as an enemy of the UK, quite the reverse, but the "Arab Spring" (more a descent into "Nuclear Winter") has affected all the Middle East and is now at the borders of Turkey itself. Of course we all hope that it stops right there and starts to recede, but Turkey has its own agenda, no matter who rules there, and is clearly not entirely in lock step with the West (which is only shuffling along, rather than marching, itself).
At the end of the day, Turkey will do what it sees as best for itself. Of course our Foreign Office and the State Department will try to influence what that is, but I doubt they will have much success. I take your point that Turkey isn't pre-war Germany, but that country was a cultured ex-Ally of this country before WW1, yet that didn't prevent the blood letting that ensued in two World Wars. That is mankind, I'm afraid. We are a belligerent and ambitious species. When we boldly go where no man has gone before we will take that with us, and heaven help the Romulans and Vulcans that we encounter along the way...
Hopefully we will invest in our own (UK's) security by having a big stick and talking softly. That, and only that, is our protection. The same, I would suggest, goes for Turkey. It is weakness rather than strength that is the cause of war, but that will be labelled by many as "stupid"...
At the end of the day, Turkey will do what it sees as best for itself. Of course our Foreign Office and the State Department will try to influence what that is, but I doubt they will have much success. I take your point that Turkey isn't pre-war Germany, but that country was a cultured ex-Ally of this country before WW1, yet that didn't prevent the blood letting that ensued in two World Wars. That is mankind, I'm afraid. We are a belligerent and ambitious species. When we boldly go where no man has gone before we will take that with us, and heaven help the Romulans and Vulcans that we encounter along the way...
Hopefully we will invest in our own (UK's) security by having a big stick and talking softly. That, and only that, is our protection. The same, I would suggest, goes for Turkey. It is weakness rather than strength that is the cause of war, but that will be labelled by many as "stupid"...
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"Hopefully we will invest in our own (UK's) security by having a big stick and talking softly. That, and only that, is our protection. The same, I would suggest, goes for Turkey. It is weakness rather than strength that is the cause of war, but that will be labelled by many as "stupid"..." Chugalug2" 6Sep15
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"Big stick...That and only that is our only protection..." No, No, No! I agree the size of our stick is important. But our security derives, as it has for a long time, from positive relationships with other states, whether that be alliances, nudging neutrals towards benevolent neutrality or even avoiding outright conflict where we have disagreements.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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Washington Times: World War III inches closer as Turkey says it may enter Syrian conflict
The reason Russia is possibly building a new airbase on the Turkish border inside Syria became clearer today as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan hinted Turkey could enter the war on the side of the anti-Assad forces who Russia has been primarily targeting. The Syrian government made major gains against the Sunni opposition in recent weeks as the Syrian city of Aleppo looked to fall from the opposition’s control. Turkey has repeatedly urged the American-led coalition against ISIS to do more to help the anti-Assad forces.
“We don’t want to fall into the same mistake in Syria as in Iraq,” Mr. Erdogan said, recounting how Turkey’s parliament denied a U.S. request to use its territory for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. “It’s important to see the horizon. What’s going on in Syria can only go on for so long. At some point it has to change,” he told journalists on the return flight from a tour of Latin America, reported Bloomberg News.
When asked if Turkey could enter the Syrian conflict, Mr. Erdogan said, “You don’t talk about these things. When necessary, you do what’s needed. Right now our security forces are prepared for all possibilities.”
To Russian President Vladimir Putin, Mr. Erdogan said, “What are you doing in Syria? You’re essentially an occupier.”
Late last week, Saudi Arabia stated it could send ground troops into the fight to support Sunni forces. Now other Gulf states seem to be following suit.
“A real campaign against Daesh has to include ground elements,” Anwar Gargash, U.A.E. minister of state for foreign affairs, said when asked if the emirates would send ground troops to fight Islamic State, using an Arabic acronym for the group. “We’re not talking about thousands of troops, but we are talking about troops on the ground that will lead the way, that will train, that will support,” Mr. Gargash said at a news conference in Abu Dhabi on Sunday. American leadership of such an effort “is a prerequisite,” he added.
The Syrian civil war is now becoming a confusing, full-fledged, proxy war for Shia against Sunni, East against West, terrorism against the Western, civilized world. This is the result of American abdication of leadership in the region and across the globe.
The reason Russia is possibly building a new airbase on the Turkish border inside Syria became clearer today as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan hinted Turkey could enter the war on the side of the anti-Assad forces who Russia has been primarily targeting. The Syrian government made major gains against the Sunni opposition in recent weeks as the Syrian city of Aleppo looked to fall from the opposition’s control. Turkey has repeatedly urged the American-led coalition against ISIS to do more to help the anti-Assad forces.
“We don’t want to fall into the same mistake in Syria as in Iraq,” Mr. Erdogan said, recounting how Turkey’s parliament denied a U.S. request to use its territory for the 2003 invasion of Iraq. “It’s important to see the horizon. What’s going on in Syria can only go on for so long. At some point it has to change,” he told journalists on the return flight from a tour of Latin America, reported Bloomberg News.
When asked if Turkey could enter the Syrian conflict, Mr. Erdogan said, “You don’t talk about these things. When necessary, you do what’s needed. Right now our security forces are prepared for all possibilities.”
To Russian President Vladimir Putin, Mr. Erdogan said, “What are you doing in Syria? You’re essentially an occupier.”
Late last week, Saudi Arabia stated it could send ground troops into the fight to support Sunni forces. Now other Gulf states seem to be following suit.
“A real campaign against Daesh has to include ground elements,” Anwar Gargash, U.A.E. minister of state for foreign affairs, said when asked if the emirates would send ground troops to fight Islamic State, using an Arabic acronym for the group. “We’re not talking about thousands of troops, but we are talking about troops on the ground that will lead the way, that will train, that will support,” Mr. Gargash said at a news conference in Abu Dhabi on Sunday. American leadership of such an effort “is a prerequisite,” he added.
The Syrian civil war is now becoming a confusing, full-fledged, proxy war for Shia against Sunni, East against West, terrorism against the Western, civilized world. This is the result of American abdication of leadership in the region and across the globe.