Commissioned Vs NCO Pilots
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
And into the 60s even, remember one AEO had a breathing curved thing, used to rib his pipe on it too 
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Danny, pretty much every piccie I have seen of Pic he has a pipe in tow. I suspect the undone button on his tunic right patch pocket is because there is a pipe stashed inside.
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I gave up pipe smoking, after many years, because of the sheer inconvenience when wearing uniform. A slim cigarette case was much easier, especially when wearing No 1 HD, No 5, DJ or a suit 
Now, what was the topic? Oh, yes, I can't find my signed copy of Phil Congdon's "Behind the Hangar Doors" ... I'm sure there's a reference in there somewhere about the badge above the cuff. He and my OH were Flt Cdrs together at IOT
Now, what was the topic? Oh, yes, I can't find my signed copy of Phil Congdon's "Behind the Hangar Doors" ... I'm sure there's a reference in there somewhere about the badge above the cuff. He and my OH were Flt Cdrs together at IOT
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L-H (your #162), and MPN11 (your #163),
Well spotted, L-H ! And MPN11, couldn't agree more (except that I was never driven to the extreme of taking up cigarettes, having seen my father die from the effects). The most I would permit myself was an occasional "Hamlet" or the like, after I gave up the pipe completely when I retired in '72.
A Pipe Smoker needs: A Pipe; A Tobacco Pouch; A combination tool incorporating a tamper, a scraper and a spike; a "Hedgehog" (a reamer for serious de-carbonising the bowl); pipe-cleaners ad lib (cotton-coated wires for cleaning condensed tars out of stem) and a means of raising fire. The patch pocket was ideal for this lot.
I suspect that, in the early days of the war, there had been an idea put about (by "Peg's Paper" and the like), that what fluttered the heartstrings of the English Rose was the Strong, Silent Man. He would invariably be a bachelor, wore a tweed jacket smelling of tobacco, smoked a pipe and for a living did something dashing: a racing driver, an explorer, a big game hunter, a mountaineer or (best of all) a Pilot ! (Subliminal Message: Get a pipe and a tweed jacket for a head start).
Well, in war it was uniform all the time, but a pipe was easy to come by, and we were Pilots after all. It was worth a try. Of course, it was a crafty rumour, put about by the likes of Dunhills and the Harris Tweed Weavers Association. There was no truth in it.
Danny.
Well spotted, L-H ! And MPN11, couldn't agree more (except that I was never driven to the extreme of taking up cigarettes, having seen my father die from the effects). The most I would permit myself was an occasional "Hamlet" or the like, after I gave up the pipe completely when I retired in '72.
A Pipe Smoker needs: A Pipe; A Tobacco Pouch; A combination tool incorporating a tamper, a scraper and a spike; a "Hedgehog" (a reamer for serious de-carbonising the bowl); pipe-cleaners ad lib (cotton-coated wires for cleaning condensed tars out of stem) and a means of raising fire. The patch pocket was ideal for this lot.
I suspect that, in the early days of the war, there had been an idea put about (by "Peg's Paper" and the like), that what fluttered the heartstrings of the English Rose was the Strong, Silent Man. He would invariably be a bachelor, wore a tweed jacket smelling of tobacco, smoked a pipe and for a living did something dashing: a racing driver, an explorer, a big game hunter, a mountaineer or (best of all) a Pilot ! (Subliminal Message: Get a pipe and a tweed jacket for a head start).
Well, in war it was uniform all the time, but a pipe was easy to come by, and we were Pilots after all. It was worth a try. Of course, it was a crafty rumour, put about by the likes of Dunhills and the Harris Tweed Weavers Association. There was no truth in it.
Danny.
Of course, it was a crafty rumour, put about by the likes of Dunhills and the Harris Tweed Weavers Association. - Danny
Which inevitably reminded me of the tobacconist's shop in Earl Grey Street in my native Edinburgh which had an engraved mirror-backed advertisement on the shop front stating "He who smokes thinks like a philosopher".
I've never felt the need to follow that up before but, interestingly enough, a wee shoogle with Google indicates that this almost certainly derives from:
“A pipe is the fountain of contemplation, the source of pleasure, the companion of the wise; and the man who smokes, thinks like a philosopher and acts like a Samaritan.”
- Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, 1st Baron Lytton
I wonder if he received any royalties.....
Jack
Which inevitably reminded me of the tobacconist's shop in Earl Grey Street in my native Edinburgh which had an engraved mirror-backed advertisement on the shop front stating "He who smokes thinks like a philosopher".
I've never felt the need to follow that up before but, interestingly enough, a wee shoogle with Google indicates that this almost certainly derives from:
“A pipe is the fountain of contemplation, the source of pleasure, the companion of the wise; and the man who smokes, thinks like a philosopher and acts like a Samaritan.”
- Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, 1st Baron Lytton
I wonder if he received any royalties.....
Jack
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Jack,
While I cannot rise to the heights of grandiloquence displayed by the noble Lord Lytton, I might add that I have noted on this Forum that: "you cannot smoke a pipe and panic at the same time !"
And it adds a little gravitas to your pronouncements (as the late Harold Wilson well knew).
Danny.
While I cannot rise to the heights of grandiloquence displayed by the noble Lord Lytton, I might add that I have noted on this Forum that: "you cannot smoke a pipe and panic at the same time !"
And it adds a little gravitas to your pronouncements (as the late Harold Wilson well knew).
Danny.
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"
While I cannot rise to the heights of grandiloquence displayed by the noble Lord Lytton - Danny
So how come that, at the time of writing, I see a total of 2843 posts, at a rate of 2.15 per day, Sir, to say nothing of the wealth of information, wit, and wisdom they contain, and the enormous resultant treat we have all been given?
Jack
So how come that, at the time of writing, I see a total of 2843 posts, at a rate of 2.15 per day, Sir, to say nothing of the wealth of information, wit, and wisdom they contain, and the enormous resultant treat we have all been given?
Jack
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Venturing bravely into the world of massive Thread Deviation, it is clear that my grandfather was a "... man who smokes, thinks like a philosopher and acts like a Samaritan."
Here's his pipe from WW1, which I subsequently smoked for many years until the crack in the bowl suggested it was time to let it retire gently to the glazed cabinet alongside his photo and his medals
Carved/scratched with his signature, "No 9 Squadron" (the RNAS one) and various airfields on which he served ... Furnes, Bray Dunes, Dunkirk, Izel les Hameau and Cuizancourt. He was a Leading Air Mechanic, RNAS but obviously a gentleman too as it has a silver band!
Here he is in 1917 on the left (RNAS) with his brother (R West Kent) and my great-grandfather seated (then RFC, later RAF and formerly Scots Gds and Welch Regt)
Here's his pipe from WW1, which I subsequently smoked for many years until the crack in the bowl suggested it was time to let it retire gently to the glazed cabinet alongside his photo and his medals
Carved/scratched with his signature, "No 9 Squadron" (the RNAS one) and various airfields on which he served ... Furnes, Bray Dunes, Dunkirk, Izel les Hameau and Cuizancourt. He was a Leading Air Mechanic, RNAS but obviously a gentleman too as it has a silver band!
Here he is in 1917 on the left (RNAS) with his brother (R West Kent) and my great-grandfather seated (then RFC, later RAF and formerly Scots Gds and Welch Regt)
Absolutely seconded Rosevidney, and how lucky our nation has been to be served by such fine gentlemen as those pictured.
MPN11, thanks for sharing this with us.
Smudge
MPN11, thanks for sharing this with us.
Smudge
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Jack (your #168),
As always: "You do me too much honour, Sir !" I write to please myself, and if it should arouse interest in, or give pleasure to others, then that is a bonus.
Did not Johnson say: “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.” ?
Danny.
As always: "You do me too much honour, Sir !" I write to please myself, and if it should arouse interest in, or give pleasure to others, then that is a bonus.
Did not Johnson say: “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.” ?
Danny.
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Cheers, Rosevidney1 and smujsmith ... but they were just a few of the millions of ordinary people who did their bit for Queen*/King and country.
* Victoria. Great-grandfather fought in Egypt with the Scots Gds at Tel-el-Kebir during the 1882 campaign. By the time he was finally discharged in 1919 he must have clocked up quite a few decades in Uniform [red and khaki].
** L/Cpl Jack wounded twice, I guess a common fate of a Signaller out there repairing telephone lines under fire. He died in hospital in France in 1918 [Flu? More wounds? Never found out how.]
* Victoria. Great-grandfather fought in Egypt with the Scots Gds at Tel-el-Kebir during the 1882 campaign. By the time he was finally discharged in 1919 he must have clocked up quite a few decades in Uniform [red and khaki].
** L/Cpl Jack wounded twice, I guess a common fate of a Signaller out there repairing telephone lines under fire. He died in hospital in France in 1918 [Flu? More wounds? Never found out how.]
Last edited by MPN11; 31st Aug 2015 at 09:20.
Gentleman Aviator
[Flu? More wounds? Never found out how.]
Whatever deeds of derring do one accomplishes, the normal "slings and arrows" still lurk to get you. A cousin of Milady's was awarded the DCM in the Western Desert (and subsequently the honour of his story on the front page of Victor comic!). A few months later he was killed - run over by a 3 ton truck inside the camp.
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MPN11 (your #169),
Thank you for the pictures. First, the pipe illustrated is very similar to my No.1 straight briar, bought from welfare supplies in India '44, (but had no silver band). I think airmen had a set of number and letter punches available in stores, as my first issue button-stick had punched into the brass plate the number (in the 9***** series) of a previous owner. Your pipe would, I think, have been carefully "personalised" in that way.
As for the family group, what is the man on the left using for buttons ? I thought all troops wore brass, what would these be made of, and why ? And L/Cpl Jack certainly has three metal (?) wound stripes, but why would one be up on his left shoulder and two down on the cuff ? And I thought they were worn on the right cuff ? YLSNED !
Your seated grandfather, a captain, looks rather elderly. At a guess, the battalion Quartermaster ?
Danny.
Thank you for the pictures. First, the pipe illustrated is very similar to my No.1 straight briar, bought from welfare supplies in India '44, (but had no silver band). I think airmen had a set of number and letter punches available in stores, as my first issue button-stick had punched into the brass plate the number (in the 9***** series) of a previous owner. Your pipe would, I think, have been carefully "personalised" in that way.
As for the family group, what is the man on the left using for buttons ? I thought all troops wore brass, what would these be made of, and why ? And L/Cpl Jack certainly has three metal (?) wound stripes, but why would one be up on his left shoulder and two down on the cuff ? And I thought they were worn on the right cuff ? YLSNED !
Your seated grandfather, a captain, looks rather elderly. At a guess, the battalion Quartermaster ?
Danny.
As for the family group, what is the man on the left using for buttons? I thought all troops wore brass, what would these be made of, and why?
Danny, With regard to the figure on the left, no soldier he recalling that MPN11's grandfather was a Leading Air Mechanic in the Royal Naval Air Service! Therefore, as a junior rating wearing fore and aft rig as opposed to square rig (think sailors with traditional collars for the latter), he will have been wearing black horn buttons, which would later be made of plastic for the few junior who still wore fore and aft rig before it was phased out for junior ratings.
Jack
Danny, With regard to the figure on the left, no soldier he recalling that MPN11's grandfather was a Leading Air Mechanic in the Royal Naval Air Service!
Therefore, as a junior rating wearing fore and aft rig as opposed to square rig (think sailors with traditional collars for the latter), he will have been wearing black horn buttons, which would later be made of plastic for the few junior who still wore fore and aft rig before it was phased out for junior ratings.Jack
When I was a squaddie in the Royal Rhodesia Regiment in my youth we had black buttons for our Bushjackets and shorts which we had to starch rigid before we put them on. This meant that to put them on you sat on a table and launched yourself into your shorts so that they stayed in shape.
On a barrack room inspection we would be called to attention and then there would be a pause whilst a minion would trot along the rows pulling the short's legs down and straight for the following inspection.
If nothing else they taught me to shoot; did they ever.
On a barrack room inspection we would be called to attention and then there would be a pause whilst a minion would trot along the rows pulling the short's legs down and straight for the following inspection.
If nothing else they taught me to shoot; did they ever.
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Oh, dear ... I've started a sh*t-storm. Sorry, folks, it was only supposed to be a "Pipe Anecdote" 
ian16th ... how very kind! Saved! I can also now see Grandfather's service stripes! Would you also perform your magic on the attached for me, seemingly taken shortly after enlisting? I have always been surprised to see a junior rating in a flat cap, looking at a distance like a Petty Officer. enlisted Air Mechanic 2nd Class 24 Oct 16, promoted Acting Air Mechanic 1st Class 1 Jan 18. And on1 April 1918, he became an RAF AC2 [with a 'paper posting' to HMS Daedalus, aka Cranwell, and another one back to Dunkirk where he was working] before eventually becoming an AC1. Wow!! Eventually discharged on 30 Apr 1920.
teeteringhead ... I suppose I could have researched further, but L/Cpl Jack was a complete unknown to me. I have no idea where his medals went either - perhaps Captain H buried them somewhere after the loss of a son?
Danny42C ... the thought of my grandfather acquiring a "pipe, tobacco" from Stores is anathema! I suspect the "3rd wound stripe" on his upper sleeve is actually a Divisional insignia.
Union Jack ... not being familiar with RNAS rig in 1917 [the date of the group photo, taking in Woking] I defer to your expertise.
ian16th ... how very kind! Saved! I can also now see Grandfather's service stripes! Would you also perform your magic on the attached for me, seemingly taken shortly after enlisting? I have always been surprised to see a junior rating in a flat cap, looking at a distance like a Petty Officer. enlisted Air Mechanic 2nd Class 24 Oct 16, promoted Acting Air Mechanic 1st Class 1 Jan 18. And on1 April 1918, he became an RAF AC2 [with a 'paper posting' to HMS Daedalus, aka Cranwell, and another one back to Dunkirk where he was working] before eventually becoming an AC1. Wow!! Eventually discharged on 30 Apr 1920.
teeteringhead ... I suppose I could have researched further, but L/Cpl Jack was a complete unknown to me. I have no idea where his medals went either - perhaps Captain H buried them somewhere after the loss of a son?
Danny42C ... the thought of my grandfather acquiring a "pipe, tobacco" from Stores is anathema! I suspect the "3rd wound stripe" on his upper sleeve is actually a Divisional insignia.
Union Jack ... not being familiar with RNAS rig in 1917 [the date of the group photo, taking in Woking] I defer to your expertise.
