Can anyone identify these ribbons?

[Pontius Navigator]

Coff, I wonder when the authors realised they needed to create a full biography for Jones?

Or Fraser?

I have seen an excellent Amdram performance of the first lost episodes and that before I saw it on TV. Side splitting with lots of laughs from what you couldn't see as well as what you could.

[Union Jack]

If you look carefully you will see there appears to be a scroll at the base of the grenade. Both Royal Engineers and Royal Artillery officers wore a grenade cap badge on certain headdress, with a scroll with the word "Ubique" (everywhere) which is the motto of both the RA and the RE. The RSF grenade badge on the other hand, did not have a scroll at the base, and thus I am pretty sure this officer is either RE or RA, not RSF.

Of course if anyone could enlarge those collar badges and see a thistle on them, then we are back to him being in the RSF!

Somewhat diffidently, since TTN is such an acknowledged expert in the field, I have to say - on the lines of Nelson at Copenhagen! - that I see no scroll - and have zoomed up to 500% before putting my head above the parapet! Equally, and remembering that this is a portrait and not a photograph so we are somewhat at the mercy of the artist, I cannot see a thistle on the collar badge grenades, the flames on which differ between RE, RA, and RSF, the last being the most ornate.

I therefore still go for RSF....

I should also apologise for referring to the subject as"our bespectacled Captain" since I believe, having magnified the image, that he is in fact a Lieutenant Colonel, which may make more sense in respect of having his portrait painted, perhaps as the CO at the time.

In any case, all we need is the subject's name, if Mr Onslow knows it, and all would quickly become clear, particularly if someone has the relevant Army List available.

Jack

[Danny42C]

langleybaston,

As your #10 has fallen on stony ground, can't resist passing on the one little thing I do know:

Press the "Alt" key while typing the following numbers on the numberpad on the right of your keyboard. You need to have the "Num Lock" function on:

Upper Case:

À ALT+0192
 ALT+0194
Ä ALT+0196
È ALT+0200
É ALT+0201
Ê ALT+0202
Ë ALT+0203
Î ALT+0206
Ï ALT+0207
Ô ALT+0212
ΠALT+0140
Ù ALT+0217
Û ALT+0219
Ü ALT+0220
Ÿ ALT+0159

Lower Case Vowels Vwl ALT Code

à ALT+0224
â ALT+0226
ä ALT+0228
è ALT+0232
é ALT+0233
ê ALT+0234
ë ALT+0235
î ALT+0238
ï ALT+0239
ô ALT+0244
œ ALT+0156
ù ALT+0249
û ALT+0251
ü ALT+0252
ý ALT+0253 (E & O E !)

Cheers, Danny.

PS: David Niven (The Moon's a Balloon) - great read. D.

[Tinribs]

Medals and records

There seems to be an increase in people wearing medals and other badges they are not entitled to. I think this habit is a disgrace to both the wearer and those who have won the decorations.

I have seen a clown wearing pilot officers rank braid with a WOs hat, medal ribbons from campaigns they could not possibly have attended and awards they seem not to match. Especially to be despised are youths at air displays wearing pilots wings on civilian sweaters. I am aware of an ex soldier claiming to be a WO but his demeanor does not match that respectable rank

Is there a website allowing a check of an individuals rank and decorations?

[CoffmanStarter]

Danny ... Much easier to get a Mac

[Pontius Navigator]

Danny, I didn't have time to discuss Langley' s circumcision but did think in the circumstances I think he meant circumflex.

[Army Mover]

Originally Posted by Union Jack

If you look carefully you will see there appears to be a scroll at the base of the grenade. Both Royal Engineers and Royal Artillery officers wore a grenade cap badge on certain headdress, with a scroll with the word "Ubique" (everywhere) which is the motto of both the RA and the RE. The RSF grenade badge on the other hand, did not have a scroll at the base, and thus I am pretty sure this officer is either RE or RA, not RSF.

Of course if anyone could enlarge those collar badges and see a thistle on them, then we are back to him being in the RSF!

Somewhat diffidently, since TTN is such an acknowledged expert in the field, I have to say - on the lines of Nelson at Copenhagen! - that I see no scroll - and have zoomed up to 500% before putting my head above the parapet! Equally, and remembering that this is a portrait and not a photograph so we are somewhat at the mercy of the artist, I cannot see a thistle on the collar badge grenades, the flames on which differ between RE, RA, and RSF, the last being the most ornate.

I therefore still go for RSF....

I should also apologise for referring to the subject as"our bespectacled Captain" since I believe, having magnified the image, that he is in fact a Lieutenant Colonel, which may make more sense in respect of having his portrait painted, perhaps as the CO at the time.

In any case, all we need is the subject's name, if Mr Onslow knows it, and all would quickly become clear, particularly if someone has the relevant Army List available.

Jack

Just to add that in my experience, you are unlikely (I never came across it in 24 years of service) to get a Lt Col attached to another regiment and adopting that Regiments identity; that said, I'm aware of Senior Officers from the same Regimental Division swapping to another Regiment in the same Division on promotion.

[Tankertrashnav]

No need for diffidence, U-J - I thought I could see a scroll but I'm working on a laptop screen (and less than 20/20 vision). If there isn't one there, (some some errant pixels maybe) then the evidence swings back to the RSF, especially as he is apparently a lieutenant colonel. I certainly never take exception to anyone querying my opinion - only a pompous fool thinks he is infallible!

tinribs - Navy/Army and RAF lists will show officers' ranks, orders and decorations, but I know of no easily accessible source which lists campaign medals - you would have to go to each individual's service record for that.

[langleybaston]

Danny, thank you, copied printed and pasted!

[1066]

Can anyone help to guess the missing medals?

In the Memorial Hall at Royal Wootton Bassett within a display of medals there is a set of miniatures with the last two medals missing. They were rescued from a skip and the owner is unknown.

1939/45 Star
Aircrew Europe Star (qualification period 3 Sep 39 to 5 Jun 44)
Pacific Star with Oakleaf ( Mentioned in Dispatches)(No clasp for Burma)
(qualification period 8 Dec 41 to 2 Sep 45)
Defence Medal
War Medal
MISSING
MISSING

I have some thoughts on the possibilities for the missing medals but initially I'll refrain from sharing them so that I don't influence any other thoughts.

All suggestions welcome plus any thoughts on the chances of identifying the owner.

1066

[Tankertrashnav]

I'd say a fairly slim chance of identifying the recipient, as although it's a fairly unusual combination, with the ACE and Pacific Stars, it's by no means unique.
The two missing medals obviously suggest post war service. There are a few possibilities, a GSM with one of the post war clasps, followed by the LS&GC if the recipient is non commissioned would be a reasonable guess, or else both issues of the GSM. Less likely for the last medal, but possible, would be the Air Efficiency Award if the chap was in the RAuxAF or RAFVR. There are other possibilities of course, but you get the picture - it would seem to be a pretty hopeless task finishing the group with any degree of certainty that it is correct.

Incidentally the oakleaf should not be on the Pacific Star, but the War Medal, as that is the medal which carries the MID emblem, regardless of what theatre the MID was for.

[1066]

TTN,
Thanks for those thoughts.
GSM + LSGC were one of my thoughts.
Air Efficiency + Cadet Forces Medal is a possibility.
How about Korea + UN. They always go together.
Sunderlands based in Japan took part in the Korean War.
At Lindholme in '69/70 we had a Master Engineer who had been on Sunderlands prior to Hastings and later a Nav who had the Korean pair from being on Sunderlands.
He had also been on Brits so maybe I need to find a 'mature' gentleman with a WW11 record + Sunderland, Britannia background who lived and probably passed away in Wootton Basset as it was then. And also an officer to rule out the LSGC!
I thought about the positioning of the oakleaf after I posted here as my father still has the instructions from 1946 re the oakleaf, as you say, to be placed on the War Medal.
Might the error give a clue as to the theatre where the citation for the MID originated?
As you say not an easy task.
Any more thoughts welcome,
1066

[rlsbutler]

missing medals

We might have been content with TTN (#31) saying “There are other possibilities of course” – but we were not. Suggestions have so far been post-WWII. So I take the liberty of mentioning a few others.

One possibility is the 1937 Coronation Medal. If you would consider adding to that the 1935 Jubilee Medal, you are postulating an authentic “Uncle” figure likely, after an early tour on bombers for instance, to be confined to HQ to make the most of his age and experience.

Such an “Uncle” was unlikely to be in a position to earn a Mention in Despatches in a later campaign. So instead of the pre-war medals, two others might be considered.

One is because in both world wars quite a lot of brave men were awarded a mention when they were recommended for some higher award. As some compensation, the protocols of which I know nothing, a French or Belgian Croix-de-Guerre or other allied award might be awarded for the gallantry. In the Pacific theatre, the source might most usually be the USA which (Wikipedia says) awarded 258 Distinguished Service Crosses to non-US combatants in WWII. What makes this suggestion attractive is that its relative rarity might explain why the medal was extracted from the group.

Another WWII medal suited to the missing location is one of several exclusive to members of Dominion air forces for their war service. My father was a Brit in the Canadian army and therefore wore the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal immediately after his Victory Medal. I think I am right in noting that the Indian equivalent of such a medal could not be claimed if the applicant was entitled to the Defence Medal - which narrows the search ever so slightly. The Australia Service Medal would be the prime candidate, I should think.

[BEagle]

langleybaston, a simpler way of using special characters is to find 'Character Map' on a (Windows) computer, then create a short cut or add it to the 'start' list. In Win7 it's in 'Accessories' > 'System Tools'...or just use 'Search programs and files' and type in 'Character Map'.

I often need to use German characters such as ß, ü, ö etc - and there are also useful mathematical items and fractions..... ¼ ± ½ etc. ô, ç, ñ, ø etc are also all there for other languages.

[Warmtoast]

BEagle & Danny

Character Map Reference Card. This came with my copy of Corel Draw some years ago. I keep it handy near the computer. Second column is for Windows.

[parabellum]

My one and only medal, GSM 1962, has my name etc. engraved around the rim, presumably none of these medals in 1066's post have that?

[Tankertrashnav]

The group that 1066 is referring to consists of miniatures, which of course are not named. However even if they were full size they would not be named, unless they had been done unofficially. The practice of naming British campaign medals, which started with the Waterloo Medal, was suspended for the issue of WW2 medals, but resumed thereafter.

As for the two missing medals, lots of alternative suggestions, all of which are possible. I very much doubt if you could trace the chap by looking for MIDs for the Pacific theatre. This would involve trawling through endless pages of the London Gazettes from the period, and trying to extract likely candidates from the lists of names of recipients of mentions.

[Genstabler]

Just to add that in my experience, you are unlikely (I never came across it in 24 years of service) to get a Lt Col attached to another regiment and adopting that Regiments identity; that said, I'm aware of Senior Officers from the same Regimental Division swapping to another Regiment in the same Division on promotion.

I was in a line infantry regiment. We had a Guards Lt Col posted in as CO who adopted our identity during his appointment. He rebadged back to the Guards when he left us and subsequently commanded 1 (BR) Corps.

[Al R]

This thread is why I like Prune.

[Army Mover]

Originally Posted by Genstabler

I was in a line infantry regiment. We had a Guards Lt Col posted in as CO who adopted our identity during his appointment. He rebadged back to the Guards when he left us and subsequently commanded 1 (BR) Corps.

Found him - Peter Leng? If not, then there are even more and I am suitably chastised.