Puma pit stop, airborne wheel changes.
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Puma pit stop, airborne wheel changes.
I remember similar in the RAF in the seventies with a leg.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a41_1421669314
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a41_1421669314
Ii looks like a nice publicity thing. It was obviously laid on for the bloke in the big Mercedes in the backgound. After over thirty years experience on various marks of Puma, including burst tyres, I cannot think of any requirement for wheels be changed in the hover.
Obviously a goody goody exercise. The incident in the seventies was a Wessex undercarriage re-installation because the previous incumbant had departed company with the aircraft.
Obviously a goody goody exercise. The incident in the seventies was a Wessex undercarriage re-installation because the previous incumbant had departed company with the aircraft.
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We replaced the main starboard undercarriage leg on a Wessex at Odiham in 1967, after the aircraft arrived in the circuit with it very broken after some extremely effective terrain-following flying on Salisbury Plain.
We had no spare, so the replacement item had to be robbed from an aircraft in the hangar. The Wessex was refuelled in the hover (Wessex in-flight refuelling!) and the pilot changed several times. I recall the whole exercise took over an hour. Afterwards, the paperwork took considerably longer...
It was a cold day, and working in the rotor downwash for a length of time in such conditions is a numbing experience. First (and last) time I have sought out the exhaust plume of a Gnome at full chat and ignored the smell, just to warm up...
We had no spare, so the replacement item had to be robbed from an aircraft in the hangar. The Wessex was refuelled in the hover (Wessex in-flight refuelling!) and the pilot changed several times. I recall the whole exercise took over an hour. Afterwards, the paperwork took considerably longer...
It was a cold day, and working in the rotor downwash for a length of time in such conditions is a numbing experience. First (and last) time I have sought out the exhaust plume of a Gnome at full chat and ignored the smell, just to warm up...
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dragartist - SW managed to 'trap' the back edge of Ocean some years back whilst steaming around the Med. It was about that time that we stopped doing running landings on grey things that moved. 
I've also a vague recollection of Chips Carpenter having a Puma undercarriage faff on 230 Sqn in the late 80s which involved engineers, crow bars etc.
I've also a vague recollection of Chips Carpenter having a Puma undercarriage faff on 230 Sqn in the late 80s which involved engineers, crow bars etc.
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I watched at Forus heliport as as one of Helikopter Service AS's Chinook's rear u/c legs fell to the ground as it lifted to the hover, full of pax. Took them a long time to sort it out. It was eventually put down safely in the maintenance area, on sandbags.
The Puma HC1 was designed with the ability to land wheels fully retracted. Then the RAF put various aerials on the underside, which complicated things. We used to fly round with a "sandbag plan" in the bits box in the event of the gear not coming down but I don't recall one ever being used in anger. However, one Puma (33 Sqn's rather than Chips' one) was set down wheels up but undamaged on the grass at Odiham, rather than on sandbags, after holes were dug in the ground to accommodate the aerials. It was later lifted by crane. I remember peering round the side of the Met office building to watch the fun, thinking that would prevent me having to attend any subsequent Board of Inquiry, other than as a witness, if it rolled over. All very eventful though.
The Puma HC1 was designed with the ability to land wheels fully retracted. Then the RAF put various aerials on the underside, which complicated things. We used to fly round with a "sandbag plan" in the bits box in the event of the gear not coming down but I don't recall one ever being used in anger. However, one Puma (33 Sqn's rather than Chips' one) was set down wheels up but undamaged on the grass at Odiham, rather than on sandbags, after holes were dug in the ground to accommodate the aerials. It was later lifted by crane. I remember peering round the side of the Met office building to watch the fun, thinking that would prevent me having to attend any subsequent Board of Inquiry, other than as a witness, if it rolled over. All very eventful though.
John Gill and I once turned a 5 min air test into a 1:30 'Is it down and locked or not' flight when we only got 2 greens. We had to refuel in the hover, as I recall. I also recall a trailer with Shy's sand bag layout on it being wheeled out, but we didn't use it. The engineers decided it was indeed locked and we landed on the grass- we didn't taxi in.
CG
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I was at Aldergrove when I think it was AT had a leg failure, that was put down on sandbags which came in handy as the nose door was then swopped for a erm damaged one off another cab.. I remember we set them up then ATC asked us to move them as it would block the runway when it fell over... It must have really been a moral boost for the unfortunate pilot.
Ohh and D McD never picked up that nights film from the Pongoes even though he was there when it failed
Ohh and D McD never picked up that nights film from the Pongoes even though he was there when it failed
All the Pumas I have seen worldwide have a VHF ariel mounted on the bottom starboard nose which would suffer in a wheels up.
An interesting one I had in the mid 70s was a nose oleo overrunning. Previous to that the nosewheel would come down at the same rate as the mainwheels. Sometimes, as in this case, the inertia of the nosewheel would cause the jack to fracture and the piston would overrun causing the gear to jam in the over centre position against the side of the nosewheel bay. Then all the hydraulic oil on the No 1 system would follow it.
It had happened before and I had thought about it so when the bang came and the light turned red I pulled the Emerg Hyd handle that isolated the No 1 Hyds. I then landed it because the undercarriage was safe against the bay wall.
This happened at Thetford so I got onto the blower and told the squadron at Odiham all about it. They then asked me to fly it back!!!!!
You can cocoa.
The modification was to put a restrictor in the nosewheel jack so that is why it travels more slowly than the mainwheels. Strangely, it wasn't done to the civvy ones, probably because they don't cycle the undercarriage so much.
I still cannot understand why RAF pilots have to climb over the jump seat to get in the cockpit whereares the rest of the world get in through the cockpit doors that the manufacurer provided.
An interesting one I had in the mid 70s was a nose oleo overrunning. Previous to that the nosewheel would come down at the same rate as the mainwheels. Sometimes, as in this case, the inertia of the nosewheel would cause the jack to fracture and the piston would overrun causing the gear to jam in the over centre position against the side of the nosewheel bay. Then all the hydraulic oil on the No 1 system would follow it.
It had happened before and I had thought about it so when the bang came and the light turned red I pulled the Emerg Hyd handle that isolated the No 1 Hyds. I then landed it because the undercarriage was safe against the bay wall.
This happened at Thetford so I got onto the blower and told the squadron at Odiham all about it. They then asked me to fly it back!!!!!
You can cocoa.
The modification was to put a restrictor in the nosewheel jack so that is why it travels more slowly than the mainwheels. Strangely, it wasn't done to the civvy ones, probably because they don't cycle the undercarriage so much.
I still cannot understand why RAF pilots have to climb over the jump seat to get in the cockpit whereares the rest of the world get in through the cockpit doors that the manufacurer provided.
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Because idiot Pongo LOs and little boys at airshows had a habit of using the black and yellow handle and the engineers got very tired of having to re-do the wirelocking once they'd fallen off!
Also, if you had a nav bag with complete 250 thou coverage, the Helilanes et al, it was easier to lug it in through the cabin than over the seat. This obviously didn't apply to the wasters in RAFG who only had a map to get them to the next Tiger meet or once Navs arrived.
Also, if you had a nav bag with complete 250 thou coverage, the Helilanes et al, it was easier to lug it in through the cabin than over the seat. This obviously didn't apply to the wasters in RAFG who only had a map to get them to the next Tiger meet or once Navs arrived.
Whilst "Fareastdriver" has much, much more Puma experience than me;
I was always taught not to put "Puma" & "Door" in the same sentence, they caused so many problems.
The more you move them, the higher the risk that they fall off; in my view.
If I got to do nothing else before we got airborne, I always checked all 4 doors and the main cowling carefully.
(And NEVER hang the ladder on the side "overnight".....!!)
That said, a very experienced operator indeed told me just a couple of months back that they "could not use the main doors, because of the kit in the back" and therefore used the front doors, "needs-must" I guess.
lsh
I was always taught not to put "Puma" & "Door" in the same sentence, they caused so many problems.
The more you move them, the higher the risk that they fall off; in my view.
If I got to do nothing else before we got airborne, I always checked all 4 doors and the main cowling carefully.
(And NEVER hang the ladder on the side "overnight".....!!)
That said, a very experienced operator indeed told me just a couple of months back that they "could not use the main doors, because of the kit in the back" and therefore used the front doors, "needs-must" I guess.
lsh
wasters in RAFG who only had a map to get them to the next Tiger meet or once Navs arrived.
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Bob Gibbs mangled an undercarriage at Caye Chapel in Belize. That required a hover wheel change as we didn't have facilities to jack the aircraft up. That certainly was not a 'goody goody' exercise. I'll have a dig around for the photos.
Sporty landing to do it..................
Sporty landing to do it..................
Watched a Malaysian Air Force S-61 Nuri hover for nearly two hours [including a refuel in the hover] while the ginger beers extracted an oleo and changed wheels and effected a hydraulic repair after it was shot-up in the non-war of 1975 at Butterworth...
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Quite a number of years ago, on leaving the HUET (then in the submarine escape tower) at HMS Vernon, a group of us watched a newly introduced-to-service (this ages me) Sea King being marshalled down from the hover to a landing on a concrete helipad. We immediately noticed that the u/c wasn't down. We yelled and waved to no avail, the marshaller had his back to us. A loud clattering noise obviously woke up the crew and the marshaller (who must have thought that Sea Kings didn't have wheels). Having briefly made metal to concrete contact, it shot up to a hover again, the wheels came down and it landed. Oops.
We yelled and waved to no avail
I had gone to Pershore to fly Mike Butts aircraft that was fitted with a forward looking TV. The boffins had fitted it in the hangar through the load pole hatch when it was on jacks in the hangar. Fantastic, they thought, with this perfect picture in the cockpit looking straight ahead.
Then they lowered the undercarriage; and there was a perfect picture of the back of the nosewheel.
This required a slightly different operating technique inasmuch as soon as you lifted into the hover you retracted the gear to see where you were going. We then proceeded to try to navigate to Odiham.
Having got lost soon after passing over Pershore's boundary fence we were fortunate to have the M4 show us the right direction. We then stumbled south, found Basingstoke and then North Gate. I then set up a left hand approach to the southern perimeter track to 33 Sqn dispersal on the south side of the airfield. I then reversed the undercarriage technique by leaving the gear up until the hover so we could see where we were going.
The grass on the western side of the hangar was the site of a tactical camp we had erected for demonstration purposes. Unbeknown to me there was a VIP visit and they were looking over the site as I approached them with the undercarriage up. Apparantly they were trying to indicate this to me with some desperation and when I did finally lower the undercarriage in the hover a fair number of cardiac arrests were prevented.
The TV was a waste of time. You had to fishtail the aircraft to get any sort of track verification and on the demo trip that afternoon half of Ops Wing were airsick.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 1st Feb 2015 at 15:28.
Shy Torque mention Pumas with the gear retracted.
The 332 Super Puma and later had the 'kneeling' undercarriage. The mainwheel oleo was in two stages initially to allow it to accept an 8 m/s (900 ft/min) landing velocity for carrier operations. Should the undercarrige be pumped down using the manual emergency system only one stage would be pumped down leaving the wheels locked halfway down.
This system gave a bonus inasmuch as the the aircraft would sit with its backside down making it easy to load load freight through the back and lowering the pylon so it was easier to load into transport aircraft. This avoided the Puma trolley allowing to aircraft to be towed in and out on its wheels, as has been done in the civil world dozens of times.
I landed on a platform in the South China Sea and my co-pilot, on his look around, discovered an hydraulic leak from the starboard undercarriage. I shut down and as it was a British registered aircraft I got on to the chief engineer. He asked me where the leak was from and I couldn't answer that because it was everywhere. He requested I have another look so back I went to the aircraft.
I wiped everthing it sight but there was still no trace of the leak so I thought of a way of pressurising it to get some oil to come out. On the 332 the emergency undercarriage pump lever is in the middle of the floor and you pump laterally. I switched the battery on, checked that the three greens were on, pulled the emergency lowering handle and started pumping.
(all 332 qualified A&E engineers are now holding their heads in their hands)
There was a loud berdoomfda and both undercarriage legs collapsed to the kneeling position.
I was frantic about my co-pilot in case he was under the leg when it happened but there were no casualties. I thought, and everbody other pilot I knew thought, that the undercarriage was inviolate when down with three greens as selected. I got back on the blower and told the engineer what had happened. He knew all about it; it was a dodge to get the aircraft to kneel before loading it in a 747.
I then indicated that I was fed up of doing his job so I sat there until they winched down some engineers.
If it had been a Chinese registered machine there would have not have been a problem. Pilots are not allowed to get their hands dirty looking for leaks, that's an engineer's job.
The 332 Super Puma and later had the 'kneeling' undercarriage. The mainwheel oleo was in two stages initially to allow it to accept an 8 m/s (900 ft/min) landing velocity for carrier operations. Should the undercarrige be pumped down using the manual emergency system only one stage would be pumped down leaving the wheels locked halfway down.
This system gave a bonus inasmuch as the the aircraft would sit with its backside down making it easy to load load freight through the back and lowering the pylon so it was easier to load into transport aircraft. This avoided the Puma trolley allowing to aircraft to be towed in and out on its wheels, as has been done in the civil world dozens of times.
I landed on a platform in the South China Sea and my co-pilot, on his look around, discovered an hydraulic leak from the starboard undercarriage. I shut down and as it was a British registered aircraft I got on to the chief engineer. He asked me where the leak was from and I couldn't answer that because it was everywhere. He requested I have another look so back I went to the aircraft.
I wiped everthing it sight but there was still no trace of the leak so I thought of a way of pressurising it to get some oil to come out. On the 332 the emergency undercarriage pump lever is in the middle of the floor and you pump laterally. I switched the battery on, checked that the three greens were on, pulled the emergency lowering handle and started pumping.
(all 332 qualified A&E engineers are now holding their heads in their hands)
There was a loud berdoomfda and both undercarriage legs collapsed to the kneeling position.
I was frantic about my co-pilot in case he was under the leg when it happened but there were no casualties. I thought, and everbody other pilot I knew thought, that the undercarriage was inviolate when down with three greens as selected. I got back on the blower and told the engineer what had happened. He knew all about it; it was a dodge to get the aircraft to kneel before loading it in a 747.
I then indicated that I was fed up of doing his job so I sat there until they winched down some engineers.
If it had been a Chinese registered machine there would have not have been a problem. Pilots are not allowed to get their hands dirty looking for leaks, that's an engineer's job.
Last edited by Fareastdriver; 1st Feb 2015 at 15:33.
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I thought, and everbody other pilot I knew thought, that the undercarriage was inviolate when down with three greens as selected.
There was a loud berdoomfda and both undercarriage legs collapsed to the kneeling position.
Something in the system hadn't cycled properly and as the line mechanic pumped the handle on the left of the copilot's seat, there was a thud and the aircraft began to retract its undercarriage and began sinking to the hangar floor! None of us knew that was possible (and it shouldn't have been but that's hydraulics for you).
Especially embarrassing for the engineers as many of the aircrew were walking across the hangar to met. brief.