F4C versus MIG21
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Interesting. There was/is a regular contributor on a British Army website from the 'other side' ... he was actually interesting, informative and didn't stir things for the sake of it. Actually quite a good chap.
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MPN11
That's certainly interesting.
That's certainly interesting.
Last edited by Mr.Noritake; 22nd Dec 2014 at 18:41. Reason: To add 'certainly' to emphasise how interesting I found that comment.
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PN:
I suspect you'd have met more Mig 21's than anticipated.
I know very little of the European theatre of '70's - '90's so I shall defer to your greater experience in the area. Surprised about the Yak 28 though. I never heard anything positive about it, seemed to have a reputation as a crew-killer.
And I'm eating my dinner. Give me a break, huh?
I suspect you'd have met more Mig 21's than anticipated.
I know very little of the European theatre of '70's - '90's so I shall defer to your greater experience in the area. Surprised about the Yak 28 though. I never heard anything positive about it, seemed to have a reputation as a crew-killer.
And I'm eating my dinner. Give me a break, huh?
Last edited by Mr.Noritake; 22nd Dec 2014 at 18:49. Reason: To explain reply delay.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Mr N, expected to operate behind the Fishbeds, they were not assigned to the IAPVOStrany. The Yak had a superior radar, until we got hold of a copy, as it was a 2-seater. The Foxhound was also a significant threat but tended to be deployed to counter SAC rather than us.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovie...Defence_Forces
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovie...Defence_Forces
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 22nd Dec 2014 at 19:07.
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OMG? You STOLE a radar that wasn't yours? How damned underhand!
And to think, I totally supported all those who said the Chinese stealing the F 35 'secrets' wasn't the way to play the game...
BTW, did you know that Continental Europeans don't have a word in their language for 'fair play'? Only the Brits and the Chinese have one. We should be friends, we think the same way.
And to think, I totally supported all those who said the Chinese stealing the F 35 'secrets' wasn't the way to play the game...
BTW, did you know that Continental Europeans don't have a word in their language for 'fair play'? Only the Brits and the Chinese have one. We should be friends, we think the same way.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
We didn't steal it, they delivered it, a bit like the USMC delivering an AWG 10 to the NVA.
The F4 rarely flew with all its toys in working order, its missiles were quite fearsome - when they worked, which wasn't often, and its superior endurance wasn't really relevant when its opponent could disengage with minimal risk when the fuel light blinked. However I'll happily admit that a second pair of eyes in the cockpit in that era could be a game-changer.
You have a habit of offering opinion. Offer up substantiated, verifiable facts if you want to sway opinion. Your posting are better matched to a Vietnamese Tom Clancy style book than to pprune.
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Of course, regardless of how 'amusing' Mr Nortaki's conversations are, its also a very 'amusing' fishing expedition from some perspectives.
But then the grown-ups here already know that.
I got rid of all my Noritake china years ago. My first wife took it all.
But then the grown-ups here already know that.
I got rid of all my Noritake china years ago. My first wife took it all.
Mr.Noritake,
My job in the early 70's, if the balloon had gone up was, flying an RAF FGR2, to drop a bucket of US supplied instant sunshine on a SAM site in East Germany.
We knew exactly how many Mig 21's we would have faced, and we knew exactly where they were. They would not have stopped us...
My job in the early 70's, if the balloon had gone up was, flying an RAF FGR2, to drop a bucket of US supplied instant sunshine on a SAM site in East Germany.
We knew exactly how many Mig 21's we would have faced, and we knew exactly where they were. They would not have stopped us...
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I'm hot for you too, West Coast.
Here's a plan; instead of expecting me to offer proof of my outrageous claims, how's about you offering an independent analysis which disproves anything I've suggested regarding the '60's and '70's era F 4?
Set to it, m'boy!
Here's a plan; instead of expecting me to offer proof of my outrageous claims, how's about you offering an independent analysis which disproves anything I've suggested regarding the '60's and '70's era F 4?
Set to it, m'boy!
Jane
Lemme see, you want me to try and prove your case for you when you offer up opinion as fact. Yeah...no.
You can set off on your own unverifiable goose chase. Your post might as well not exist as it's opinion based only. And that opinion is that of a defense writer and not omeone with first hand knowledge.
Lemme see, you want me to try and prove your case for you when you offer up opinion as fact. Yeah...no.
You can set off on your own unverifiable goose chase. Your post might as well not exist as it's opinion based only. And that opinion is that of a defense writer and not omeone with first hand knowledge.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Looking at Wiki, there is an impressive number of kills attributed to the Mig.
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I haven't sought comparable numbers for the counter however.
Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-21 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I haven't sought comparable numbers for the counter however.
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West Coast:
I suspect you already realise how little I care for your opinion. Had you, at any stage in our various encounters, displayed evidence of an open enquiring mind on the subject(s) under discussion I might feel differently. But you haven't, so I don't.
I'm not here to persuade you, nor do I expect to move you one millimetre from your entrenched beliefs. I'm here to express an opinion; an opinion based in part on personal experience and in part of the experiences of those with whom I've been privileged to serve.
You have your stance. I respect that. But I see no need for us to continue to engage in meaningless and pointless disputes. We have nothing to learn from each other. Kindly add me your 'ignore' list.
Merry Christmas.
I suspect you already realise how little I care for your opinion. Had you, at any stage in our various encounters, displayed evidence of an open enquiring mind on the subject(s) under discussion I might feel differently. But you haven't, so I don't.
I'm not here to persuade you, nor do I expect to move you one millimetre from your entrenched beliefs. I'm here to express an opinion; an opinion based in part on personal experience and in part of the experiences of those with whom I've been privileged to serve.
You have your stance. I respect that. But I see no need for us to continue to engage in meaningless and pointless disputes. We have nothing to learn from each other. Kindly add me your 'ignore' list.
Merry Christmas.
According to this source: The F-4C Phantom II
F-4 (all models) kills during the Vietnam War: 164.5
F-4 Kill Ratio - Vietnam: 2:1
F-4 kills (all models to date): 280
F-4 (all models) kills during the Vietnam War: 164.5
F-4 Kill Ratio - Vietnam: 2:1
F-4 kills (all models to date): 280
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I seriously doubt there will ever exist, this side of eternity, an accurate and verifiable list of F4 or Mig 21 'kills' in any confrontation. Too many vested interests at play.