Queen and country
Queen and country
Join Date: May 2002
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Well who would you rather listen to, HRH the Queen or any of those useless n*bbers that haven't got a clue about anything useful (oops looked liked I showed my hand, bang goes my promotion)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
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My friend, I served my country and my Sovereign for 36 years. Old fashioned it might be, but I would have died for Her. Tonight's concert at Buckingham Palace brought a lump to the throat - I just wish I could have been there. Thankfully, there are those amongst us who still hold the old fashioned values and who spit on those who deride them. There is nothing wrong with honour and love of one's Sovereign - it is a pity that so many people deride the Monarchy, when so much good is wrought to the country by so few.
God save the Queen.
God save the Queen.
Lupus Domesticus
Join Date: Mar 2002
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My understanding, Jack, is that the Queen, or more specifically the Crown, is the embodiment or personification of the State, the State being the Nation or, if you prefer, "The People".
Thus whilst even in a constitutional monarchy the Monarch theoretically weilds ultimate power (as opposed to absolute power) he or she does so on behalf of, and in the name of, the People.
Swearing alleigance to the Crown, then, means that one accepts both the authority of the People, and the ability of the Monarch to exercise that authority correctly and responsibly. The Crown and The People become, by this relationship, mutual providers and protectors; thus the integrity of the nation, or State, is maintained for the collective greater good.
The swearing of alliegance does not, however, extend to the Government of the Day, who are generally considered to be a bunch of untrustworthy Bad Eggs, against whom both Crown and People, through their unique partnership, must remain forever on their guard.
So even if you're not a Royalist, your loyalty is sworn to the State or nation anyway, and you undertake to remain faithful to that entity regardless of the embodiment of its official head.
The Government is still secondary in your loyalties.
It may seem like a fine distinction, but it is a very terribly important one.
At the end of the day it is all that stands between those regimes which are civilised and those which are not.
Thus whilst even in a constitutional monarchy the Monarch theoretically weilds ultimate power (as opposed to absolute power) he or she does so on behalf of, and in the name of, the People.
Swearing alleigance to the Crown, then, means that one accepts both the authority of the People, and the ability of the Monarch to exercise that authority correctly and responsibly. The Crown and The People become, by this relationship, mutual providers and protectors; thus the integrity of the nation, or State, is maintained for the collective greater good.
The swearing of alliegance does not, however, extend to the Government of the Day, who are generally considered to be a bunch of untrustworthy Bad Eggs, against whom both Crown and People, through their unique partnership, must remain forever on their guard.
So even if you're not a Royalist, your loyalty is sworn to the State or nation anyway, and you undertake to remain faithful to that entity regardless of the embodiment of its official head.
The Government is still secondary in your loyalties.
It may seem like a fine distinction, but it is a very terribly important one.
At the end of the day it is all that stands between those regimes which are civilised and those which are not.
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Well said Blue Wolf, that succinctly summs it up. To respond to Jack's original
question, during my 30 years I never came across anyone in the Mess who
was not a Royalist. I've been out over 20 years now so maybe things may
have changed somewhat, though I doubt it.
BC
question, during my 30 years I never came across anyone in the Mess who
was not a Royalist. I've been out over 20 years now so maybe things may
have changed somewhat, though I doubt it.
BC
Join Date: Feb 2001
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FJJP: Outdated, outmoded but, by God, admirable none the less. I served my 22 with the same pride in my uniform and for what it stands.
I salute you.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
I salute you.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Gentleman Aviator
And it's HM's (not HRH please) signature on the Commission Scroll, not El Presidente's.
Reminds me of an occasion (last year??) when some journo (not you Jacko I'm sure) referred to Mrs Blur as "The First Lady". not only was she not first, someone worked out that she was 789th (or whatever) after a shedload of duchesses, baronesses and archbishops's wives!
God Save and Bless the Queen!
Reminds me of an occasion (last year??) when some journo (not you Jacko I'm sure) referred to Mrs Blur as "The First Lady". not only was she not first, someone worked out that she was 789th (or whatever) after a shedload of duchesses, baronesses and archbishops's wives!
God Save and Bless the Queen!
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
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And it stays with you forever. Governments come and go, some quicker than others and some not quick enough.....at least we get a rapid turnround of personalities with the present one.
But the Monarchy are the backbone of our society, thank goodness.
God Bless 'em all! 
But the Monarchy are the backbone of our society, thank goodness.
God Bless 'em all!
Join Date: May 2000
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Bluewolf said:
"The Government is still secondary in your loyalties"
Sorry but they come much further down my list of allegiances than second place. I have more loyalty to my old Scout troop than I do towards Bliar, The ginger Dwarf, Knuckles Prescott et al.
I have had the honour and privilege to meet a number of the Royal Family and wonderful people they are to who have that rare knack of being able to talk to anyone at the other's party's level and be genuinely interested in the same....unlike some.
"The Government is still secondary in your loyalties"
Sorry but they come much further down my list of allegiances than second place. I have more loyalty to my old Scout troop than I do towards Bliar, The ginger Dwarf, Knuckles Prescott et al.
I have had the honour and privilege to meet a number of the Royal Family and wonderful people they are to who have that rare knack of being able to talk to anyone at the other's party's level and be genuinely interested in the same....unlike some.
Last edited by Talking Radalt; 2nd Jun 2002 at 09:42.
Lupus Domesticus
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Well said T'Radalt.
Perhaps I should clear up any misunderstanding; by "The Government is still secondary" I mean that there is no way they will ever be first.
God Save the Queen, Gentlemen.
Perhaps I should clear up any misunderstanding; by "The Government is still secondary" I mean that there is no way they will ever be first.
God Save the Queen, Gentlemen.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I believe that most (but probably, not all) of today's Armed Forces can relate to this thread, Serving loyally and wholeheartedly their Queen and Country and are even prepared to offer the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs.
However, many at higher levels have forgotten this and seem to prefer to serve their political 'masters' for their own gain/promotion. Any such 'motivated' Senior Officers should heed the sentiments already expressed above - we pledge our allegiance to HM the Queen, Her heirs and successors and not to any trumped up politician who wants to be President of the UK/Europe.
However, many at higher levels have forgotten this and seem to prefer to serve their political 'masters' for their own gain/promotion. Any such 'motivated' Senior Officers should heed the sentiments already expressed above - we pledge our allegiance to HM the Queen, Her heirs and successors and not to any trumped up politician who wants to be President of the UK/Europe.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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100% absolutely and most definitely a royalist. I join to serve Her Majesty, Heirs and Successors; not a wannabe President. The National Anthem I sing with pride, it still brings me out in goose bumps every time.
A twenty something Flt Lt.
A twenty something Flt Lt.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2002
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My views
Thanks to everyone whos responded so far. Ive only asked questions so far so here are my views:
As someone applying to the airforce I am patriotic, a royalist and a believer in democracy.
The ruling monarch acts as a check to democracy. If Mr Prime Minister tried to turn England into a dictatorship or use the armed forces as a tool kill political rivals the armed forces could excercise there alliegence to the Queen to prevent this.
I also believe the position Head of State shouls not be elected for the simple reason it would grant total power to the ruling political party.
I am applying for a commision so this is something I have thought long and hard about though the Air Cadets, VGS, my flying schollarship etc. I love the UK the way it is. I certainly dont want to fight for the next Slobodan Milosivic.
For Queen and Country
Jack
As someone applying to the airforce I am patriotic, a royalist and a believer in democracy.
The ruling monarch acts as a check to democracy. If Mr Prime Minister tried to turn England into a dictatorship or use the armed forces as a tool kill political rivals the armed forces could excercise there alliegence to the Queen to prevent this.
I also believe the position Head of State shouls not be elected for the simple reason it would grant total power to the ruling political party.
I am applying for a commision so this is something I have thought long and hard about though the Air Cadets, VGS, my flying schollarship etc. I love the UK the way it is. I certainly dont want to fight for the next Slobodan Milosivic.
For Queen and Country
Jack
Join Date: Sep 1999
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The monarchy are great. They are born to lead us, no need for backhanders, spinning, brown nosing, U turning, baby kissing, party politicing, bad mouthing, taking money for questions, cool Britannia-ing, changing their accent according to company kept etc. Thet are just there; to inspire, to lead, to represent all that is best. They are a national treasure and the envy of many other powerful nations.
Any politician lobbying to remove the monarchy should be sent to the Tower for treason, or emigrate.
Any politician lobbying to remove the monarchy should be sent to the Tower for treason, or emigrate.
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Proud and honoured to wear the symbols of the Crown on No1 SD hat and various other items of uniform etc.
Would also be very keen to display my upstanding loyalty to Zara Philips.
Would also be very keen to display my upstanding loyalty to Zara Philips.