National Identity Cards
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National Identity Cards
Cutting across several threads that are currently newsworthy...................
I suppose that an individual identity card for every "legal" UK resident, and the right of the police to stop and ask to see it, infringes the human rights of................... exactly who??
Where are my "human rights"??
I suppose that an individual identity card for every "legal" UK resident, and the right of the police to stop and ask to see it, infringes the human rights of................... exactly who??
Where are my "human rights"??
Good question; where are they?
Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I have the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, the right of liberty, and the right not to be arbitrarily detained.
In other words, I can't be stopped unless the Police / RCMP have a good reason for doing so, and they have to tell me what that reason is, immediately.
The problem with ID cards is that the Police find it both a lot easier to justify stopping you, and they have an immediate reason for detaining you for not having the ID in your possession. Doesn't matter that you left it in your other pants pocket, or you are wearing swimming trunks. Everyone on a nudist beach is now breaking the Law.
In short, ID cards are carte blanche for the Police to stop anyone they feel like stopping. Do the UK Police abuse Stop and Search rights? Ask a black guy.
Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I have the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure, the right of liberty, and the right not to be arbitrarily detained.
In other words, I can't be stopped unless the Police / RCMP have a good reason for doing so, and they have to tell me what that reason is, immediately.
The problem with ID cards is that the Police find it both a lot easier to justify stopping you, and they have an immediate reason for detaining you for not having the ID in your possession. Doesn't matter that you left it in your other pants pocket, or you are wearing swimming trunks. Everyone on a nudist beach is now breaking the Law.
In short, ID cards are carte blanche for the Police to stop anyone they feel like stopping. Do the UK Police abuse Stop and Search rights? Ask a black guy.
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I suppose that an individual identity card for every "legal" UK resident, and the right of the police to stop and ask to see it,
Hell, even trying to bring in a "individual identity card" is fraught with danger for pollies.
I might have in the past supported it but as Fox3 said, for his reasons,
no longer, gives too much power to the Police.
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Trouble with an ID is it's only good until it's faked and once faked it's worthless. The last failed effort that wasted billions and we would have had to pay for as individuals ( talk about forced taxation) had already been rejected by the likes of Japan as unworkable.
That and how would it prevent terrorism? The London tube bombers would have been legitimate ID carrying individuals.
You'd be better off using the dog identification system and injecting it under the skin...... Talk about Big Brother.
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That and how would it prevent terrorism? The London tube bombers would have been legitimate ID carrying individuals.
You'd be better off using the dog identification system and injecting it under the skin...... Talk about Big Brother.
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Do the UK Police abuse Stop and Search rights? Ask a black guy.
I would be very happy to have to carry an ID card if I knew that every other legal resident had to do the same.
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But that won't happen and visitors from abroad would not need to have one, and they are one of the largest threats, not workable and just another big brother move to repress the populace.
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Cape
Carrying it and having to produce it on demand and / or stop and search at any time are two different things.
Anyone who drives effectively has an ID card which you must have when driving.
Carrying it and having to produce it on demand and / or stop and search at any time are two different things.
Anyone who drives effectively has an ID card which you must have when driving.
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Cheap shot fox3. I police one the most diverse areas of a major city. Come and look at my stop/ search records.
I stop people I need to account for their movements. I search people who I need to search. One of the last had three kitchen knives in his waistband.
Racist Police is an easy line. I fail to see why anyone with such views would choose a career when they are subject to constant scrutiny.
With few exceptions, all my colleagues Police without prejudice or favour with the single goal of catching criminals. There is no, zero, incentive for targetting people according to their skin colour.
I invite you to join me on patrol should you doubt me.
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I stop people I need to account for their movements. I search people who I need to search. One of the last had three kitchen knives in his waistband.
Racist Police is an easy line. I fail to see why anyone with such views would choose a career when they are subject to constant scrutiny.
With few exceptions, all my colleagues Police without prejudice or favour with the single goal of catching criminals. There is no, zero, incentive for targetting people according to their skin colour.
I invite you to join me on patrol should you doubt me.
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I used to know a black guy in Wandsworth, early 90's. He got stopped 5 times in his first 10 days in the area. On the fifth occasion they pulled him in for questioning. Crime? Driving an expensive car. After two hours holding him in the drunk tank on a Friday night, they interviewed him and asked him how he could afford a BMW. "I'm the new Council Race Relations Officer"
Maybe it's changed Tash. Only Police Officers I've known have been lovely blokes. They found my pushbike the only time it was taken, but I've always lived in nice places. People who don't tell me there's still a few bad apples, and they can make people's lives a nightmare.
Maybe it's changed Tash. Only Police Officers I've known have been lovely blokes. They found my pushbike the only time it was taken, but I've always lived in nice places. People who don't tell me there's still a few bad apples, and they can make people's lives a nightmare.
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Not for me thanks.
Why not? Because as an institution, I don't trust the police force any longer to do the right thing as often as I used to, because I don't trust the expensive quango tasked with introducing and running the scheme, because I don't trust politicians not to look on them as the thin end if the wedge, because they'll cost a fortune and because they'll prove ineffective and worthless over time. Also, they allow terrorists to win and out of principle, why on earth would we want to erode even more rights in favour of the ever larger and intrusive state and why do we need to keep criminalising people for violating yet another political imperative? Haven't we had enough increasingly restrictive new laws these past 15-20 years?
Why not? Because as an institution, I don't trust the police force any longer to do the right thing as often as I used to, because I don't trust the expensive quango tasked with introducing and running the scheme, because I don't trust politicians not to look on them as the thin end if the wedge, because they'll cost a fortune and because they'll prove ineffective and worthless over time. Also, they allow terrorists to win and out of principle, why on earth would we want to erode even more rights in favour of the ever larger and intrusive state and why do we need to keep criminalising people for violating yet another political imperative? Haven't we had enough increasingly restrictive new laws these past 15-20 years?
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I'm no fan of the Police, however in their defence, the days of racist coppers are long gone. You will naturally get the odd bad apple but it isn't the norm.
Saying that police officers nowadays are racist (at least in the UK) is akin to saying members of the armed forces are murderers. Both statements are inaccurate and represent extremist views. How it was "back in the day" in terms of policing is not accurate in 2014.
In the early 90's I was only a young baby so I am not aware of how it was then, although it's certainly not that way now, at least not in the UK.
Saying that police officers nowadays are racist (at least in the UK) is akin to saying members of the armed forces are murderers. Both statements are inaccurate and represent extremist views. How it was "back in the day" in terms of policing is not accurate in 2014.
In the early 90's I was only a young baby so I am not aware of how it was then, although it's certainly not that way now, at least not in the UK.
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Tashengurt
If the Police can be influenced by the Pollies and a Chief Commissioner NOT to go hard on crims, certain crime groups (read races) etc and to do the "community policing" instead of banging a few heads occasionally, then it can also happen the other way, that certain races et al can be targeted.
Read the Heinous Beheading thread and the link to a cops story about why the Lebanese run riot around Sydney for an example of political interference.
If the Police can be influenced by the Pollies and a Chief Commissioner NOT to go hard on crims, certain crime groups (read races) etc and to do the "community policing" instead of banging a few heads occasionally, then it can also happen the other way, that certain races et al can be targeted.
Read the Heinous Beheading thread and the link to a cops story about why the Lebanese run riot around Sydney for an example of political interference.
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Fox 3.
In the early nineties I had a 30" waist and hair. Things have changed.
I work a really horrible area. I barely have time to tick all the boxes I have to. Covering my tracks for being racist would take time I don't have.
That doesn't stop people telling me I am if they think it'll scare me off though.
They didn't even find my bike! (Kona Lavadome in midnight blue with Manitou forks.)
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In the early nineties I had a 30" waist and hair. Things have changed.
I work a really horrible area. I barely have time to tick all the boxes I have to. Covering my tracks for being racist would take time I don't have.
That doesn't stop people telling me I am if they think it'll scare me off though.
They didn't even find my bike! (Kona Lavadome in midnight blue with Manitou forks.)
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But that won't happen and visitors from abroad would not need to have one, and they are one of the largest threats
Of course the politicians believe differently which is why the UK harbours hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens, many of whom are harmless, but it only takes a few bad ones to do a lot of harm.
Anyone who drives effectively has an ID card which you must have when driving.
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You still have your hair, you like myself is simply growing up through it. 
This is off the topic a bit, but Policing (not Policemen/women) was my final straw in deciding to leave the UK permanently.
2008 'Feral' yob who killed trucker with a concrete missile jailed for just three years | Mail Online
I used to drive under that bridge twice a week. That little **** was out after 2 years, no doubt still bragging about it.
There was racist graffiti sprayed on a wall opposite my house, aimed at someone two doors down. She reported it, gave them a lead. Zero action. My car keys were stolen off my school desk one lunchhour. No investigation other than interviews. I was sent a victim support officer despite expressly saying I didn't want them to go to the expense "Procedure, Sir". Police told the caretakers not to approach intruders as they were "all armed with knives", but didn't tell me, the Head or anyone of the other victims that.
With respect Tash, the UK system now makes the Police chase targets, not criminals. Then the Justice system lets the crims out.
2008 'Feral' yob who killed trucker with a concrete missile jailed for just three years | Mail Online
I used to drive under that bridge twice a week. That little **** was out after 2 years, no doubt still bragging about it.
There was racist graffiti sprayed on a wall opposite my house, aimed at someone two doors down. She reported it, gave them a lead. Zero action. My car keys were stolen off my school desk one lunchhour. No investigation other than interviews. I was sent a victim support officer despite expressly saying I didn't want them to go to the expense "Procedure, Sir". Police told the caretakers not to approach intruders as they were "all armed with knives", but didn't tell me, the Head or anyone of the other victims that.
With respect Tash, the UK system now makes the Police chase targets, not criminals. Then the Justice system lets the crims out.
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Of course the politicians believe differently which is why the UK harbours hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens, many of whom are harmless, but it only takes a few bad ones to do a lot of harm.
And the first thing they do? Dispose of there identities, as the UK cannot deport them back to a Country if they do not know the Country they came from.
Bringing in an ID card system when the borders are not secure is like branding your own horses whilst leaving the gate open to your neighbours fields.