Flybe airline to maintain UK's A400M army plane-sources
Thread Starter
Flybe airline to maintain UK's A400M army plane-sources
A brief article on Reuters. And Flybe's experience in maintaining/supporting large military cargo aircraft is...
Presumably there are neither the Service personnel nor the space at BZN for such work?
Presumably there are neither the Service personnel nor the space at BZN for such work?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,895
Received 2,834 Likes
on
1,210 Posts
Thought they were not to healthy, though they made a profit this year. Had enough of Marshalls?
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,955
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This article states that the spannering will be c/o at Brize.
Maintenance Contract Awarded for RAF A400Ms | Defense News | defensenews.com
Maintenance Contract Awarded for RAF A400Ms | Defense News | defensenews.com
A chance for some ex-herc techies to top-up their pension for a couple of years while wearing flybe overalls? Can they certify the ex-mil guys to work on this civ/mil aircraft quick enough or will flybe need to use ready-certified guys?
I believe the reason for the use of civil licensed engineers is most probably because the aircraft is also civil certified. For it to have a resale value it has to be maintained to civil standards.
This is not uncommon with a number of aircraft being maintained in this way e.g Bell 412, Agusta AW 139 and others. The MOD is trying to protect the tax payers investment rather than see aircraft sold for scrap value at the end of their military careers.
From a maintenance engineers point of view good news with salaries on offer of over £45k.
That can be compared with the appalling low rates of pay offered on other military contracts and indeed to military personnel. Elsewhere on this forum I believe the starting pay for an RAF aircraft technician was quoted as being £17,000. Less than a PTI or a military policeman. Maybe the penny will drop and we will see a decent pay rise for military aircraft technicians.
I can only see the exodus to civvy street of experienced staff continuing.
This is not uncommon with a number of aircraft being maintained in this way e.g Bell 412, Agusta AW 139 and others. The MOD is trying to protect the tax payers investment rather than see aircraft sold for scrap value at the end of their military careers.
From a maintenance engineers point of view good news with salaries on offer of over £45k.
That can be compared with the appalling low rates of pay offered on other military contracts and indeed to military personnel. Elsewhere on this forum I believe the starting pay for an RAF aircraft technician was quoted as being £17,000. Less than a PTI or a military policeman. Maybe the penny will drop and we will see a decent pay rise for military aircraft technicians.
I can only see the exodus to civvy street of experienced staff continuing.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,895
Received 2,834 Likes
on
1,210 Posts
Yep Eric, during my time the wages were supposed to be equivalent, but they stupidly got rid of that and wonder why people are leaving in droves.
I thought Monarch looked after Flybe's a/c. Or is that just Line Maintenance?
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,895
Received 2,834 Likes
on
1,210 Posts
Flybe Aviation Services :: Home
You get to the stage when you think, why bother having an RAF, simply sub the whole lot out...... What a stupid state of affairs.
You get to the stage when you think, why bother having an RAF, simply sub the whole lot out...... What a stupid state of affairs.
FlyBe do all their maint at Exeter (EGTE), given that EGTE has been very quiet in recent years it should hopefully be a boost for the airfield
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ericferrit
The pay rates of aircraft technicians on military contracts is as you say very poor and I think the reasons are two fold.
First the employers see the employees military pension as the employees real income and consider the wages are just a top up to the military pension. I see this as the employees military pension subsidizing the employers business.
Second most military bases are away from the high cost housing area so the low pay is more attractive because it reflects the lower cost of living.
The pay rates also reflect the fact that civil licences are not required for military aircraft ( up until now) and those who don't hold a civil engineering licence can certify these aircraft........ Those ex military people who have taken the time and effort to get civil licences have by now migrated to the high pay positions with the airlines.
First the employers see the employees military pension as the employees real income and consider the wages are just a top up to the military pension. I see this as the employees military pension subsidizing the employers business.
Second most military bases are away from the high cost housing area so the low pay is more attractive because it reflects the lower cost of living.
The pay rates also reflect the fact that civil licences are not required for military aircraft ( up until now) and those who don't hold a civil engineering licence can certify these aircraft........ Those ex military people who have taken the time and effort to get civil licences have by now migrated to the high pay positions with the airlines.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Chance for ex herc techies to top up their pensions..." Except they're retired so probably don't want to. And they have no experience/qualification on A400. Apart from that, great idea.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,895
Received 2,834 Likes
on
1,210 Posts
It's ok all of these contract companies paying a pittance and relying on ex Services folks using their pensions to bolster their wages, but that was all well and good when you had a Service that was large enough to generate a steady flow of retiring service personnel.
The problem as I see it is as more and more of the Services get farmed out by the UK PLC to contracted companies, "because it's cheaper" and the Services shrink accordingly, that flow reduces to a trickle and with second time around retirements, these companies will suddenly find their supply of cheap labour gone, that then will force costs up and contract prices in line with that. The trouble is the Service will then be screwed as their skill base and facilities to do it themselves will be long gone, so they will end up having to bite the bullet and absorb those costs.....
The problem as I see it is as more and more of the Services get farmed out by the UK PLC to contracted companies, "because it's cheaper" and the Services shrink accordingly, that flow reduces to a trickle and with second time around retirements, these companies will suddenly find their supply of cheap labour gone, that then will force costs up and contract prices in line with that. The trouble is the Service will then be screwed as their skill base and facilities to do it themselves will be long gone, so they will end up having to bite the bullet and absorb those costs.....
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 1,958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nutloose, you'll find that ex-service maintenance personnel are now very much in the minority in the airline world and the airlines have a good record for funding engineering training and apprenticeships.
ShotOne(andMissed
) - "Chance for ex herc techies to top up their pensions..." Except they're retired so probably don't want to. And they have no experience/qualification on A400. Apart from that, great idea
I work alongside 3 ex-RAF who have 'retired' once already (including techies) although in IT not aircraft engineering admittedly. I also know many others in my locale who are well into their 'second careers'.
Re the quals for A400M - er, who has them at the moment? (isn't it a new aircraft.....?
)
Re the experience - I know who'd I'd like organising/managing my team of new aircraft engineers....and it isn't a greenhorn graduate or apprentice. I'd take the person with shopfloor (even only on C130) experience over shiny degrees any day.
Interesting to see the (reasonable) argument re the experienced ex-RAF guys being used for a pittance and then not being replaced due to a lack of replacements coming from the RAF. I've seen that being said for the last 20 years (Finningley Dominie maintenance?) but it doesn't seem to have stopped it so far. Hence adverts in my local press for experienced ex-SeaKing guys just last month to join the SK team at Lossie.
) - "Chance for ex herc techies to top up their pensions..." Except they're retired so probably don't want to. And they have no experience/qualification on A400. Apart from that, great ideaI work alongside 3 ex-RAF who have 'retired' once already (including techies) although in IT not aircraft engineering admittedly. I also know many others in my locale who are well into their 'second careers'.
Re the quals for A400M - er, who has them at the moment? (isn't it a new aircraft.....?
) Re the experience - I know who'd I'd like organising/managing my team of new aircraft engineers....and it isn't a greenhorn graduate or apprentice. I'd take the person with shopfloor (even only on C130) experience over shiny degrees any day.
Interesting to see the (reasonable) argument re the experienced ex-RAF guys being used for a pittance and then not being replaced due to a lack of replacements coming from the RAF. I've seen that being said for the last 20 years (Finningley Dominie maintenance?) but it doesn't seem to have stopped it so far. Hence adverts in my local press for experienced ex-SeaKing guys just last month to join the SK team at Lossie.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,895
Received 2,834 Likes
on
1,210 Posts
Nutloose, you'll find that ex-service maintenance personnel are now very much in the minority in the airline world and the airlines have a good record for funding engineering training and apprenticeships.
Without those people they will have to pay the going rate, which means they cannot under bid as they did in the past.