Gerry Adams arrested over IRA murder
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I did have a pint with an intel type just after Sept/11.
He did make the point that a terrorist act had, had more effect on the troubles than any policy or action by HMG to date.
So it doesn't surprise me that the evidence is coming from the US.
The PIRA lost millions because of that act.
He did make the point that a terrorist act had, had more effect on the troubles than any policy or action by HMG to date.
So it doesn't surprise me that the evidence is coming from the US.
The PIRA lost millions because of that act.
De Valera should have taken Northern Ireland when it was offered by Churchill during WW2 in return for the south abandoning neutrality!!
Admiralty was clear that while Eire joining Allies would have some use, it reality it would cost more because of the need to scatter defensive forces even further across more territory especially when they needed it just to protect home ports.
Luftwaffe Condors used to bomb Scotland and follow western Irish coast before landing in Brest, means all areas of Eire were still attackable.
Population of Eire I believe overwhelmingly supported neutrality during WW2, their war of Independence and Civil War were still in close memory.
Would London have potentially lost the benefit of the thousands of Irish men coming over here to join up or the thousands of men who came across to labour in factories or building airfields ?
As to Adams, believe its political. It also means every member of armed forces that has been involved in killing / injuring a civilian is now under same basis of being chargeable for what they did then as well as those who gave orders.
Gentleman Aviator
prohibits three subjects for discussion in an Officers' Mess (Religion and Politics being two of them !)
......... something like that anyway........
........ one must away to consult one's Stradling.
stradling makes one vulnerable, surely?
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Actually it will be released pending further enquiries..
Sinn Féin leader Gerry Adams has been released from custody over a 1972 murder and a file will be sent to the Public Prosecution Service, police have confirmed
The decision to release Mr Adams would mean that prosecution lawyers will decide if charges will be brought.
The file sent by the police to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) will detail the evidence gathered.
It will be up to PPS lawyers to decide if there is enough evidence to bring any charges and what those charges would be.
The test for prosecution is met if there is sufficient evidence that can be admitted in court to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction. Lawyers must also decide if the prosecution is required in the public interest.
The file sent by the police to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) will detail the evidence gathered.
It will be up to PPS lawyers to decide if there is enough evidence to bring any charges and what those charges would be.
The test for prosecution is met if there is sufficient evidence that can be admitted in court to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction. Lawyers must also decide if the prosecution is required in the public interest.
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While I have some sympathy with the 'freedom fighter' concept, the murder of civilians in England and Northern Ireland should never be part of the 'move-on' process.
Adams is always very precise with his comments, viz: '..I can categorically state I was not involved in the kidnapping or murder...' etc. What about the planning or the knowledge the act was to take place?
Stick him on Question Time or in front of Paxman and let's find out.
Adams is always very precise with his comments, viz: '..I can categorically state I was not involved in the kidnapping or murder...' etc. What about the planning or the knowledge the act was to take place?
Stick him on Question Time or in front of Paxman and let's find out.
Anyone listen to The Reunion on Radio4 today, about the aftermath for families of the Armagh bombing. If the evidence is there I hope a prosecution will follow. Sinn Fein's attempt to bully the PSNI and judiciary over charging or otherwise of anyone is beneath contempt.
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I notice in his speech he was referring to his questioning as interrogation and those questioning him as interrogators ... Is it me or does his wording seem careful orchestrated to make his questioning sound more than the normal.
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Originally Posted by racedo
As to Adams, believe its political. It also means every member of armed forces that has been involved in killing / injuring a civilian is now under same basis of being chargeable for what they did then as well as those who gave orders.
The IRA was not ever an official agency of the ROI, thus all acts by the IRA and its members were those of private citizens - not those of government agents acting in accordance with their officially assigned duties (members of the Armed Forces acting under orders).
The laws, precedents, and legal status of the two are massively different.
In the time I spent in the UK it seemed to me that ascribing some sort of political or religious motive to the IRA always seemed to be attributing too much to them.
Despite all the over-wrought, dramatic rhetoric, they came across as little more than common criminals, should be treated as such and pursued ruthlessly.
Paramilitaries?
Bull****. Just scum with guns and the odd big bomb.
Freedom fighters, my arse.
Despite all the over-wrought, dramatic rhetoric, they came across as little more than common criminals, should be treated as such and pursued ruthlessly.
Paramilitaries?
Bull****. Just scum with guns and the odd big bomb.
Freedom fighters, my arse.
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Mad Jock (or anyone else)
Re your post at the top, particularly the last sentence
"I did have a pint with an intel type just after Sept/11.
He did make the point that a terrorist act had, had more effect on the troubles than any policy or action by HMG to date.
So it doesn't surprise me that the evidence is coming from the US.
The PIRA lost millions because of that act."
Are you talking about the Omagh bombing ?
And did that bombing or some other act cause support from the US
to cease or at least dwindle ?
Re your post at the top, particularly the last sentence
"I did have a pint with an intel type just after Sept/11.
He did make the point that a terrorist act had, had more effect on the troubles than any policy or action by HMG to date.
So it doesn't surprise me that the evidence is coming from the US.
The PIRA lost millions because of that act."
Are you talking about the Omagh bombing ?
And did that bombing or some other act cause support from the US
to cease or at least dwindle ?
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Interestingly but not surprisingly the BBC was the only outlet to trail and then lead with Adams ppbeing released without charge, event when other outlets mentioned the file being sent up for decisions.
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9 11 twin towers was in the heartland of the Irish descendents country.
The feeling at the time was PIRA were freedom fighters against British oppression.
Quite a few that were killed in the towers provided substantial financial support and also facilitated certain bits of equipment to be provided. There were functions thrown for fundraising for hunger strikers family's and stuff like that which the family's saw very little of the cash afterwards.
Twin towers came down and freedom fighters lost there appeal. Along with the fact that more than a few supporters were now dead due to a terrorist act.
Cash dried up, equipment dried up.
There are still republican pubs in NY that do pass the bucket as they say. But most Americans won't have anything to do with it now after being on the receiving end of freedom fighters attentions. People in public office couldn't afford to have any links with any of that sort of thing. So stuff that had had a blind eye turned to was stopped and tacticaly never mentioned again.
The other major change was when the sisters of a murdered guy from Belfast got to meet the president and it was splashed all over the papers the torture he went through. And they were quite open that they were receiving death threats for doing what they were doing going to the state's to complain the president.
The support from the state's is a fraction of what it used to be. I seem to remember the number 20 million a year as the estimated funding from the US pre 9/11. But I maybe wrong.
The feeling at the time was PIRA were freedom fighters against British oppression.
Quite a few that were killed in the towers provided substantial financial support and also facilitated certain bits of equipment to be provided. There were functions thrown for fundraising for hunger strikers family's and stuff like that which the family's saw very little of the cash afterwards.
Twin towers came down and freedom fighters lost there appeal. Along with the fact that more than a few supporters were now dead due to a terrorist act.
Cash dried up, equipment dried up.
There are still republican pubs in NY that do pass the bucket as they say. But most Americans won't have anything to do with it now after being on the receiving end of freedom fighters attentions. People in public office couldn't afford to have any links with any of that sort of thing. So stuff that had had a blind eye turned to was stopped and tacticaly never mentioned again.
The other major change was when the sisters of a murdered guy from Belfast got to meet the president and it was splashed all over the papers the torture he went through. And they were quite open that they were receiving death threats for doing what they were doing going to the state's to complain the president.
The support from the state's is a fraction of what it used to be. I seem to remember the number 20 million a year as the estimated funding from the US pre 9/11. But I maybe wrong.
Last edited by mad_jock; 5th May 2014 at 06:35.
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There will be quite a few with quite in depth knowledge about what was going on in 60's to 90's in NI in the US. I wouldn't be suprised if paperwork after grandad kicked the bucket is coming to light found by a generation who finds that sort of thing disgusting.
And we're as before Captain O Connel NYPD would have disposed of it, after pulling body's out of rubble for 14 days as a rookie he now documents it and processes it so it can't be lost.
And we're as before Captain O Connel NYPD would have disposed of it, after pulling body's out of rubble for 14 days as a rookie he now documents it and processes it so it can't be lost.
Wander00 - yes I listened to The Reunion as well. The families of the Omagh victims were all badly let down by the authorities on both side of the border, including bungling of evidence by the RUC as it was at the time, which lessened the chances of a criminal prosecution.
As to the "let the sleeping dogs lie" attitude, as some lady on the Today programme said this morning, if we can prosecute men for feeling up girls 40 years ago, it's unthinkable that we shouldn't do the same for murderers.
As to the "let the sleeping dogs lie" attitude, as some lady on the Today programme said this morning, if we can prosecute men for feeling up girls 40 years ago, it's unthinkable that we shouldn't do the same for murderers.
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It's thoroughly unpleasant, tt but not unthinkable. We did a deal on Good Friday. It was deeply unpleasant to watch some vile people walk out of prison where they deserved to rot but that's what it took to end the conflict.
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The problem is that is hasn't really ended, has it??
Its a really really difficult situation for politicians. I would not like to be in their position.
However my earlier post stands true, you cannot forget the law in isolated cases, just to make one thing better. Any law system is there to SERVE THE PEOPLE, not the politicians. The only way that this can work, is to pardon EVERY prisoner in the the system. The Yorkshire Ripper should be freed if he promises not to kill anyone else, as should Brady, and Levi Bellfield (Milly Dowler), Rose West, Dennis Nilsen, Jon Venables, Ian Huntley etc etc. The IRA murders killed many more than these people combined. All they have done is promise they won't do it again................ unless Gerry Adams gets charged and then it's all back on........... Can't you see the irony of it all??
As terrible as it is, it is better to restart a war than to let murders go unpunished.
Its a really really difficult situation for politicians. I would not like to be in their position.
However my earlier post stands true, you cannot forget the law in isolated cases, just to make one thing better. Any law system is there to SERVE THE PEOPLE, not the politicians. The only way that this can work, is to pardon EVERY prisoner in the the system. The Yorkshire Ripper should be freed if he promises not to kill anyone else, as should Brady, and Levi Bellfield (Milly Dowler), Rose West, Dennis Nilsen, Jon Venables, Ian Huntley etc etc. The IRA murders killed many more than these people combined. All they have done is promise they won't do it again................ unless Gerry Adams gets charged and then it's all back on........... Can't you see the irony of it all??
As terrible as it is, it is better to restart a war than to let murders go unpunished.