Gerry Adams arrested over IRA murder
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You seem to have misinterpreted my post Shack37. I am not in any way trying to justify the IRA or its campaign. My point (and the only one I was making) was that they were/are not cowards. I'm guessing (I've never done it, so can't say with any certainty) that it takes some courage to carry a live bomb down the street, regardless of your intentions as to how its used.
The courageous people were those who risked their lives defusing them.
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I can't bear this entire awfulness being dragged into the headlines again. I wish both Adams and McGuinness (the completely innocent, never there, not a member) a long stay in Hell ... As I do all the sub-humans on all sides of the equation who went so far beyond civilised behaviour.
My involvement was minimal, and I thankfully never served in NI. In England, I was only exposed to UK bombing twice, my mother just once ... and a very good friend was murdered on his OMQ doorstep in Germany.
Sadly, I feel it's time to leave it to <insert Deity> ... I fear that anything else will just kick the whole sad, disgusting, uncivilised saga off again. There are sufficient morons over there to achieve it, albeit ineptly.
I don't forgive, and I don't forget, though.
My involvement was minimal, and I thankfully never served in NI. In England, I was only exposed to UK bombing twice, my mother just once ... and a very good friend was murdered on his OMQ doorstep in Germany.
Sadly, I feel it's time to leave it to <insert Deity> ... I fear that anything else will just kick the whole sad, disgusting, uncivilised saga off again. There are sufficient morons over there to achieve it, albeit ineptly.
I don't forgive, and I don't forget, though.
Last edited by MPN11; 2nd May 2014 at 11:44. Reason: clarification of expression.
In many cases they did not carry their live bombs down the street themselves, they forced innocent people to do it for them. Someone in their car at the place at the wrong time,
.......and yes, I was there.
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Anyhow, I didn't post here to justify the IRA (as you seem to think I did),
and I don't fancy getting into (another) PPRuNe slanging match, so will leave it at that.
and I don't fancy getting into (another) PPRuNe slanging match, so will leave it at that.
Shack
Out of interest, do you think the French resistance were brave?
Out of interest, do you think the French resistance were brave?
The British army were on their own soil and initially to help the police protect catholic areas from protestant violence. What thanks did they get? First it was welcome boys, then bricks and stones and then guns and bombs.
As Haraka says "and yes, I was there.
I shall now retire from the debate.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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The IRA bombs were indiscriminate and 90% of the time the victims were unarmed, innocent civilians, including women and children, yes, the IRA were cowards.
Originally Posted by Shack37
The British army were on their own soil
Is a situation such as that in Northern Ireland best viewed through the prism of "the land" and as a security issue? What about the people who live there, their hopes, aspirations and loyalties?
JAS
Yes I do, you're comparing chalk with cheese. The French resistance were fighting against an occupying foreign force that had occupied their country.
The British army were on their own soil and initially to help the police protect catholic areas from protestant violence. What thanks did they get? First it was welcome boys, then bricks and stones and then guns and bombs. As Haraka says "and yes, I was there.
The British army were on their own soil and initially to help the police protect catholic areas from protestant violence. What thanks did they get? First it was welcome boys, then bricks and stones and then guns and bombs. As Haraka says "and yes, I was there.
And since when did "being there" afford special strategic insight into the issues and their underlying causes? Were not all the citizens of the UK and Ireland 'there' also, in so far as all were subject to and affected by violence directly attributed to the Troubles?
Last edited by Mil-26Man; 2nd May 2014 at 09:55.
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This is a highly sensitive time and anyone who knows anything about NI politics is probably, like me, hoping we can keep heat out of the situation. We desperately need the politicians to stay clear - the application of the justice system is above the paygrade of the politicians. They get to make the laws, then they have to stand back and let the justice system deal with the processes.
The last thing we need is politicians on one side or the other 'celebrating come-uppence' or 'claiming biased policing': either of these irresponsible interjections could lead to an angry mob outside the police station in support or opposition
Or worse, TWO angry mobs, one on either side
Does anyone else remember the Battle of Burntollet Bridge?
The last thing we need is politicians on one side or the other 'celebrating come-uppence' or 'claiming biased policing': either of these irresponsible interjections could lead to an angry mob outside the police station in support or opposition
Or worse, TWO angry mobs, one on either side
Does anyone else remember the Battle of Burntollet Bridge?
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Originally Posted by Just a spotter
Shack, I think that touches on a core part of the issue. Just how long does one political entity need to have possession of "the soil" before it's theirs?
Just another erk
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You seem to have misinterpreted my post Shack37. I am not in any way trying to justify the IRA or its campaign. My point (and the only one I was making) was that they were/are not cowards.
A week after she disappeared, Michael was taken, bound to a chair, had a gun held to his head, beaten and was threatened with being shot if he spoke about the IRA.
His sister says different: Jean McConville's daughter vows to name IRA members who executed her mother | Mail Online
I don't believe its anything to do with J McConville or indeed any murder be it of security personnel or innocent civilians in the troubles.
that little misunderstanding that was the troubles is now water under the bridge as NI moves slowly forward to some sort of normality.
Gerry and his merry band of men Sein Fein are starting it prove to be an embarrassment to the Southern Irish government.
Recently a very senior irish banker walked scot free from court (hardly surprising given his connections to southern politicians an the old boy network).
SF are pegged to do very well in the upcoming European elections and a lot of senior folk in banking are getting nervous as Gerry is very much anti corruption and never moved in the right circles.
I think its a case of certain favours being called in to try to tame him.
that little misunderstanding that was the troubles is now water under the bridge as NI moves slowly forward to some sort of normality.
Gerry and his merry band of men Sein Fein are starting it prove to be an embarrassment to the Southern Irish government.
Recently a very senior irish banker walked scot free from court (hardly surprising given his connections to southern politicians an the old boy network).
SF are pegged to do very well in the upcoming European elections and a lot of senior folk in banking are getting nervous as Gerry is very much anti corruption and never moved in the right circles.
I think its a case of certain favours being called in to try to tame him.
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Scum and cowards. Killing British soldiers could be compared to the French resistance, fair do's, but the way they treated their own was unacceptable. Indescribable what they did in Warrington, Manchester, London etc etc to women and young children. Never ever allow these people to be described as human
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As a certain Mr Anthony Blair would say, "It's time to move on". Sadly, whilst he might say that, there are there are many thousands of others who can't, or won't, do that.
There are many dead, maimed and traumatised on both sides of this sorry equation ... and many of them show no inclination to give up "The Struggle".
In some respects, it remains the UK's local Afghanistan. It only needs a few extremists, on either side of the tragic fences, to kick the whole thing off again. And Mr Adams' investigation is a perfect 'cause'.
How sad. Justice, long overdue, may make things worse instead of better ... which is why I fear this will just fizzle out as being "too difficult"
There are many dead, maimed and traumatised on both sides of this sorry equation ... and many of them show no inclination to give up "The Struggle".
In some respects, it remains the UK's local Afghanistan. It only needs a few extremists, on either side of the tragic fences, to kick the whole thing off again. And Mr Adams' investigation is a perfect 'cause'.
How sad. Justice, long overdue, may make things worse instead of better ... which is why I fear this will just fizzle out as being "too difficult"
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So how do we do this? Evidence that a male abducted a mother of ten (???) and killed her. Cold blooded scumbag murder. Because of the potential of endangering the so called 'peace' process, it is suggested the law should look the other way???? The day we do this, the rule book should be torn up and ALL crime must be immediately forgotten about up until that moment. All prisoners should be immediately released and the law should restart from that moment in time.
NO ONE SINGLE PERSON CAN BE ABOVE THE LAWS OF THE LAND. Before anyone goes on about MPs, they are included in that statement.
Think that is a ridiculous thought? Then tell me why Adams and McGuinness should be exempt, justify it please.
PS. Remember, as bad as he is, he may actually be innocent of this crime. They did a ****load of infighting as well as murdering. This could be a kick in the balls from the grave.
NO ONE SINGLE PERSON CAN BE ABOVE THE LAWS OF THE LAND. Before anyone goes on about MPs, they are included in that statement.
Think that is a ridiculous thought? Then tell me why Adams and McGuinness should be exempt, justify it please.
PS. Remember, as bad as he is, he may actually be innocent of this crime. They did a ****load of infighting as well as murdering. This could be a kick in the balls from the grave.
Jayteeto - I like your line - and as an aside maybe we will see Blair before tribunal, even a court, when they finally produce the Iraq report. Incidentally, one Member of the Inquiry panel is the son of a Cranwell Commandant in the 60s