Air Cadets grounded?
So, no more ATC presence in Wales, Northern Ireland or Northern Scotland. In fact the only remaining ATC site outside England seems to be Kirknewton.
I wonder how much longer before a second shrinkage to two or three sites only, across the country?
Very much as many on here predicted, but a shameful shambles nonetheless.
Sad.
I wonder how much longer before a second shrinkage to two or three sites only, across the country?
Very much as many on here predicted, but a shameful shambles nonetheless.
Sad.
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Biccie 74, here is a copy of an email I have sent to the First Minister of Northern Ireland, copied to the First Ministers of Scotland and Wales. I also wonder what the husband and father-in-law of the Honorary Air Commodore in Chief will think when they discover that some wazzers in the ACO have killed off all ACO flying within both future kings principality. Anyway with some Per Ardua Ad Astra maybe we'll get some proper aviation "Venture Adventure" back again.
Annexe 1: Written statement - Mr Julian Brazier, (Parliamentary under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence))
Annexe 2: Percentage efficiency figures, Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (2011, Last figures available, but note that there has been no VGS flying since 2014)
First Minister,
The Air Training Corps in Northern Ireland has been in existence since the early days of the second world war. Among the many activities available to cadets is the opportunity to be provided with gliding induction flights between the age of 13 3/4 and 16 and, from age 16 are able to apply for a gliding course which, if showing the aptitude can lead to them flying solo (long before they can legally drive). Those cadets who show a high aptitude can have further advanced gliding training and where applicable may become staff cadets at the gliding school, eventually rising through the organisation to become instructors themselves.
Gliding training for cadets in Northern Ireland, up until the pause mentioned in the written statement, has been provided by 664 Volunteer Gliding Squadron (VGS) based at Newtownards airfield, with, occasionally, weekly residential courses at Central Gliding School at RAF Syerston in Nottinghamshire.
Many cadets in Northern Ireland have caught the “aviation bug” through flying with 664 VGS and have been spurred on by their desire to continue flying professionally. There are now ex cadets from Northern Ireland flying with the RAF, the Fleet Arm, The Army Air Corps and the Irish Air Corps. Others are flying with the Airlines many on long haul with Virgin Atlantic and British Airways. If you are flying out of the International or City airports and the captain or co-pilot has a Northern Ireland accent, it is highly likely that their interest in aviation was kindled by their first ever flight with 664 VGS.
This has now come to an end. With the ministerial statement the cadets in Northern Ireland are now going to be restricted to applying/competing for what will be much sought after residential courses at the Central Gliding school. If the weather at the time is poor, it is highly likely that the cadets will not complete the course and will return home without their wings and no possibility of being re-coursed. And, of course, for those who show the aptitude, there will be no opportunity to become staff cadets, thus removing the likely first step in their possible future career.
It is worthy of note that these decisions mean that all air cadet flying within the Principality of Wales will cease. With the choice of 661 VGS at Kirk Newton being chosen as the only gliding squadron in Scotland and the problems associated both with the squadron and infrastructure problems at the airfield, it is my contention that this will not happen and that, therefore, there will be no air cadet gliding within Scotland.
This then leads me to think that the organisation and locations of all air cadet gliding will now be England centric brought about by “Little Englander” thinking by those decision makers in Headquarters Air Training Corps (HQAC) and No. 2 Flying Training School. Furthermore the opportunities and advancements offered to English cadets will be denied to those cadets fortunate enough to be living in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
Annexe 1: Written statement - Mr Julian Brazier, (Parliamentary under-Secretary (Ministry of Defence))
Annexe 2: Percentage efficiency figures, Volunteer Gliding Squadrons (2011, Last figures available, but note that there has been no VGS flying since 2014)
First Minister,
The Air Training Corps in Northern Ireland has been in existence since the early days of the second world war. Among the many activities available to cadets is the opportunity to be provided with gliding induction flights between the age of 13 3/4 and 16 and, from age 16 are able to apply for a gliding course which, if showing the aptitude can lead to them flying solo (long before they can legally drive). Those cadets who show a high aptitude can have further advanced gliding training and where applicable may become staff cadets at the gliding school, eventually rising through the organisation to become instructors themselves.
Gliding training for cadets in Northern Ireland, up until the pause mentioned in the written statement, has been provided by 664 Volunteer Gliding Squadron (VGS) based at Newtownards airfield, with, occasionally, weekly residential courses at Central Gliding School at RAF Syerston in Nottinghamshire.
Many cadets in Northern Ireland have caught the “aviation bug” through flying with 664 VGS and have been spurred on by their desire to continue flying professionally. There are now ex cadets from Northern Ireland flying with the RAF, the Fleet Arm, The Army Air Corps and the Irish Air Corps. Others are flying with the Airlines many on long haul with Virgin Atlantic and British Airways. If you are flying out of the International or City airports and the captain or co-pilot has a Northern Ireland accent, it is highly likely that their interest in aviation was kindled by their first ever flight with 664 VGS.
This has now come to an end. With the ministerial statement the cadets in Northern Ireland are now going to be restricted to applying/competing for what will be much sought after residential courses at the Central Gliding school. If the weather at the time is poor, it is highly likely that the cadets will not complete the course and will return home without their wings and no possibility of being re-coursed. And, of course, for those who show the aptitude, there will be no opportunity to become staff cadets, thus removing the likely first step in their possible future career.
It is worthy of note that these decisions mean that all air cadet flying within the Principality of Wales will cease. With the choice of 661 VGS at Kirk Newton being chosen as the only gliding squadron in Scotland and the problems associated both with the squadron and infrastructure problems at the airfield, it is my contention that this will not happen and that, therefore, there will be no air cadet gliding within Scotland.
This then leads me to think that the organisation and locations of all air cadet gliding will now be England centric brought about by “Little Englander” thinking by those decision makers in Headquarters Air Training Corps (HQAC) and No. 2 Flying Training School. Furthermore the opportunities and advancements offered to English cadets will be denied to those cadets fortunate enough to be living in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
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You couldn't make it up !
News story
Minister visits RAF Cadets and volunteers in Scotland
From:Ministry of Defence and Julian Brazier MP First published:12 March 2016
Minister for Reserves, Julian Brazier, has visited RAF Kirknewton to see how RAF Air Cadets and volunteers gain flight experience training.
After being shown around the facilities of 661 Volunteer Gliding Squadron (VGS), the Minister chatted to Cadets and volunteers as they demonstrated radio controlled flying. He also took the opportunity to see how he performed on their newly installed flight simulator – known as a PTT (part task trainer) and funded by the RAF Charitable Trust – that will help teach Cadets the basics of flying before they get to try out the real thing.
The Minister’s visit follows the re-launch of Air Cadet gliding, which will focus the units on regional hubs and provide Cadets with more opportunities to experience fixed-wing flying as well as rebuilding gliding programme, and allowing Cadets to obtain the coveted ACO Glider Wings. He also praised the work of the committed volunteer staff at Kirknewton who help to keep the RAF’s Air Cadets flying.
Mr Brazier said:
I am very impressed by the enthusiasm and skill of the cadets here in Scotland, as well as the commitment and dedication of the volunteer staff who offer this high quality flying training, and provide inspiration and leadership to generations of air cadets.
Squadron Leader Eddie Carr, Officer Commanding 661 VGS at Kirknewton said of the new simulator:
Without funding from the RAF Charitable Trust this wouldn’t have been possible. Everyone involved in Air Cadet gliding is very grateful to the Charitable Trust for its generosity.
The Minister also saw the work undertaken to improve the airfield, the cadet and staff accommodation blocks and the administrative area. As part of a wider strategy on Air Cadet basing, the Kirknewton site will expand into the regional hub for Scotland, and become a Glider Centre of Excellence to support Air Cadets from across Scotland.
News story
Minister visits RAF Cadets and volunteers in Scotland
From:Ministry of Defence and Julian Brazier MP First published:12 March 2016
Minister for Reserves, Julian Brazier, has visited RAF Kirknewton to see how RAF Air Cadets and volunteers gain flight experience training.
After being shown around the facilities of 661 Volunteer Gliding Squadron (VGS), the Minister chatted to Cadets and volunteers as they demonstrated radio controlled flying. He also took the opportunity to see how he performed on their newly installed flight simulator – known as a PTT (part task trainer) and funded by the RAF Charitable Trust – that will help teach Cadets the basics of flying before they get to try out the real thing.
The Minister’s visit follows the re-launch of Air Cadet gliding, which will focus the units on regional hubs and provide Cadets with more opportunities to experience fixed-wing flying as well as rebuilding gliding programme, and allowing Cadets to obtain the coveted ACO Glider Wings. He also praised the work of the committed volunteer staff at Kirknewton who help to keep the RAF’s Air Cadets flying.
Mr Brazier said:
I am very impressed by the enthusiasm and skill of the cadets here in Scotland, as well as the commitment and dedication of the volunteer staff who offer this high quality flying training, and provide inspiration and leadership to generations of air cadets.
Squadron Leader Eddie Carr, Officer Commanding 661 VGS at Kirknewton said of the new simulator:
Without funding from the RAF Charitable Trust this wouldn’t have been possible. Everyone involved in Air Cadet gliding is very grateful to the Charitable Trust for its generosity.
The Minister also saw the work undertaken to improve the airfield, the cadet and staff accommodation blocks and the administrative area. As part of a wider strategy on Air Cadet basing, the Kirknewton site will expand into the regional hub for Scotland, and become a Glider Centre of Excellence to support Air Cadets from across Scotland.
Why move 637? Because 612 are being disbanded. Suggest you read the announcement...
Rissy has just had a fortune spent on it Abingdon hasn't its a simple decision for the bean counters.
As Leon has pointed out there are plans to move a skydiving outfit into Abingdon that combined with the proposed southern enlargement of Brize Zone the PPL community in this country will not be happy as the Brize / Benson gap will finally be closed.
DIB DIB DIB
DIB DIB DIB DOB DOB DOB LAUNCH LAUNCH LAUNCH
Sorry chaps the time has come for those with any B...s to jump ship and get something going in an organisation that knows what it is doing.
Nothing to loose as with JM still in charge and nobody up top to query what is happening the ATC are doomed to be a nanny unit that provides no-hopers with a safe job and pension.
As a firing squad is unlikely to be convened the best available option is to give them no troops to command.
ALL MP's should be appraised as to how huge amounts of money have been wasted providing NOTHING,and the lack of Cadet self motivation that has been lost.The organisation has not only lost its way it it can not even read a map.
Sorry chaps the time has come for those with any B...s to jump ship and get something going in an organisation that knows what it is doing.
Nothing to loose as with JM still in charge and nobody up top to query what is happening the ATC are doomed to be a nanny unit that provides no-hopers with a safe job and pension.
As a firing squad is unlikely to be convened the best available option is to give them no troops to command.
ALL MP's should be appraised as to how huge amounts of money have been wasted providing NOTHING,and the lack of Cadet self motivation that has been lost.The organisation has not only lost its way it it can not even read a map.
Brize - Benson Gap
The 'dwindling' numbers of PPL'rs will no doubt be aware that MATZ are not 'controlled airspace' although it is usual practice to contact them.
However there is a difference between legal requirement and courtesy to make contact and inform them of your intentions.
The ATZ is theirs but the MATZ bit is advisory for Civil traffic. In practice a well run unit will always wish to speed things along, however lazy ones attempt to send traffic 'around the house's' and this is not GOOD AIR TRAFFIC.After all we have far less military aircraft in the system now so why the pressure.
However there is a difference between legal requirement and courtesy to make contact and inform them of your intentions.
The ATZ is theirs but the MATZ bit is advisory for Civil traffic. In practice a well run unit will always wish to speed things along, however lazy ones attempt to send traffic 'around the house's' and this is not GOOD AIR TRAFFIC.After all we have far less military aircraft in the system now so why the pressure.
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The 'dwindling' numbers of PPL'rs will no doubt be aware that MATZ are not 'controlled airspace' although it is usual practice to contact them.
However there is a difference between legal requirement and courtesy to make contact and inform them of your intentions.
The ATZ is theirs but the MATZ bit is advisory for Civil traffic. In practice a well run unit will always wish to speed things along, however lazy ones attempt to send traffic 'around the house's' and this is not GOOD AIR TRAFFIC.After all we have far less military aircraft in the system now so why the pressure.
However there is a difference between legal requirement and courtesy to make contact and inform them of your intentions.
The ATZ is theirs but the MATZ bit is advisory for Civil traffic. In practice a well run unit will always wish to speed things along, however lazy ones attempt to send traffic 'around the house's' and this is not GOOD AIR TRAFFIC.After all we have far less military aircraft in the system now so why the pressure.
More likely would be a Danger Area as presently exists at Weston-on-the-Green which I presume the Abingdon DZ will replace; this could be activated by NOTAM thus leaving the airspace class G when not in use for paras.
Hm Weston already has a gliding club; it would be an excellent place for a Viking VGS if the paras move out.
Brize Zone
Chev Brize is not in my 'usual' operating area;what is happening there that requires more controlled airspace,and does the zone have to be from SFC as opposed to a stepped extension that is less onerous to other users.
Down west Civil Newquay is requesting the ability to have a 'Drone Zone' circle that would operate for short periods for UAV deployment and recovery.This is so they can team up with Aberporth to cover a block of airspace already designated as Danger Area's.
As with all airspace requirements it is important for 'other users' to input the consultation so as to keep a balance in the system.
Looking out of my window this morning and thinking back to my 615 days and how we would have had all the kit checked and ready by now and the Austin would be collecting 'bods' for a Naffi / Airmens mess run for breakfast.
Can not really believe how the powers to be have destroyed our organisation and replaced capability with clots.
Down west Civil Newquay is requesting the ability to have a 'Drone Zone' circle that would operate for short periods for UAV deployment and recovery.This is so they can team up with Aberporth to cover a block of airspace already designated as Danger Area's.
As with all airspace requirements it is important for 'other users' to input the consultation so as to keep a balance in the system.
Looking out of my window this morning and thinking back to my 615 days and how we would have had all the kit checked and ready by now and the Austin would be collecting 'bods' for a Naffi / Airmens mess run for breakfast.
Can not really believe how the powers to be have destroyed our organisation and replaced capability with clots.
Last edited by POBJOY; 13th Mar 2016 at 09:20.
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Petition Facts
https://petition.parliament.uk/
Two facts that I didn't know:
If a petition gets 10,000 signatures, the government will respond.
If a petition gets 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in Parliament.
There have been almost 350,000 views of this Thread (admittedly including many return visitors). There are currently around 60,000 Air Cadets and Adult Volunteers, with many times more ex-cadets and staff. And I wonder how many cadets the Air Cadet Organisation has sent solo since it came into existence: probably not too far off 100,000. Perhaps more.
Two facts that I didn't know:
If a petition gets 10,000 signatures, the government will respond.
If a petition gets 100,000 signatures, it will be considered for debate in Parliament.
There have been almost 350,000 views of this Thread (admittedly including many return visitors). There are currently around 60,000 Air Cadets and Adult Volunteers, with many times more ex-cadets and staff. And I wonder how many cadets the Air Cadet Organisation has sent solo since it came into existence: probably not too far off 100,000. Perhaps more.
tmmorris,
I started as an ATC cadet 52 years ago and, like many in that era, my three solo controlled crashes in a Cadet Mk III sparked my career in aviation. After nearly 28 years in the RAF and 18 years in the airline industry I still fly/glide/tug/instruct as a hobby.
Anyone from HQAC, or 2 FTS, who monitors this thread would be very welcome to come and try to "discipline me". Indeed, I would relish the chance to tell them face to face what an utter and disgraceful shambles the last two years have been and what a pathetic, and expensive, solution is now proposed to try and get cadets back into the air.
My sympathies lie not only with the youngsters who continue to be so badly let down, but also with the many VGS volunteers who have now been cr@pped upon from a great height.
Those who continue to be responsible for this continuing cluster**** should hang their heads in shame - but I know they won't. As ever, there is no accountability for failure in the public sector.
Rant over!
I started as an ATC cadet 52 years ago and, like many in that era, my three solo controlled crashes in a Cadet Mk III sparked my career in aviation. After nearly 28 years in the RAF and 18 years in the airline industry I still fly/glide/tug/instruct as a hobby.
Anyone from HQAC, or 2 FTS, who monitors this thread would be very welcome to come and try to "discipline me". Indeed, I would relish the chance to tell them face to face what an utter and disgraceful shambles the last two years have been and what a pathetic, and expensive, solution is now proposed to try and get cadets back into the air.
My sympathies lie not only with the youngsters who continue to be so badly let down, but also with the many VGS volunteers who have now been cr@pped upon from a great height.
Those who continue to be responsible for this continuing cluster**** should hang their heads in shame - but I know they won't. As ever, there is no accountability for failure in the public sector.
Rant over!
HQ Air Cadets Monitors Forum
Hi HQ Air Cadets,and Syerston
How does the 'Leadership' feel about the way this great organisation has been completely failed by those 'paid' and 'charged' with its operational planning and provision of services that are not being provided.
If you had ANY sense of doubt about how badly let down the Cadets have been then make no mistake it is the biggest C......F.... in its whole history and an utter disgrace in its 75th year.
Of course as you have absolutely no idea how the Corps should be run or what it needs then perhaps some resignations are required to at least admit how you all have lost the plot and are incapable of original thought in aviation matters.
Anyway you can now have another load of meetings and 'cascade' utter C... among yourselves but do not bother to close the stable door now the b.....horses have not only left they are not coming back. Well done i hope you can sleep well, and think about the damage caused by the useless excuses of 'staff' that stalk the corridors of power under the illusion they have any idea
of what to do or how to do it.
You sorry bunch would never had got through staff cadet selection in my day.
How does the 'Leadership' feel about the way this great organisation has been completely failed by those 'paid' and 'charged' with its operational planning and provision of services that are not being provided.
If you had ANY sense of doubt about how badly let down the Cadets have been then make no mistake it is the biggest C......F.... in its whole history and an utter disgrace in its 75th year.
Of course as you have absolutely no idea how the Corps should be run or what it needs then perhaps some resignations are required to at least admit how you all have lost the plot and are incapable of original thought in aviation matters.
Anyway you can now have another load of meetings and 'cascade' utter C... among yourselves but do not bother to close the stable door now the b.....horses have not only left they are not coming back. Well done i hope you can sleep well, and think about the damage caused by the useless excuses of 'staff' that stalk the corridors of power under the illusion they have any idea
of what to do or how to do it.
You sorry bunch would never had got through staff cadet selection in my day.
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PobJoy, Pobjoy, tsk tsk. I thought you would have learnt from my #1646 - There is no honour, there will be no falling on swords, there are no pistols to have an accident with whilst cleaning. Not at all. there is, however, CYA and ships not seen.