Air Cadets grounded?
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No sympathy from me either. Emailed the ATC sqn near my parents once saying I’d be in the area for a couple of weeks once and that I was one of their ex-cadets - now RAF SNCO air crew, know a bit about electronics/comms, flying, leadership, basic training, march, shoot, how to fold your pants and clean your boots etc. “Would I mind mailing the training officer to understand where he could fit me in their already busy winter training schedule?” Now I don’t expect the red carpet, and I can’t expect a salute even from a 13 year old, but I was surprised by their village hut approach to life. Consequently, this glider business doesn’t surprise me. I’m sure some have their hearts in the right place.
You have to go through CRB checks before you can do lectures to cadets. If you're lucky, they might rush it through in about 6 months.
Gentleman Aviator
You have to go through CRB checks before you can do lectures to cadets. If you're lucky, they might rush it through in about 6 months.
And the DBS (as we are reminded below it is now called!) is only required for "regular unsupervised access" so a temporary visitor could be "chaperoned" - and of course now that 18+ cadets must be DBS'd, those cadets could be the chaperone (or chaperon).
Last edited by teeteringhead; 22nd Dec 2017 at 09:34. Reason: Correcting CRB to DBS - thanks Fitter2!
Keep up chaps, it's been DBS checks for a while now.
I can't really blame the shrinking of station visits on the ATC organisation, there's a limit to how many visits one RAF Station can handle. Of the 5 Annual Camps I went to in the 1950's, only Kinloss is still an active base.
When at school in Leeds, during the summer holidays I would hitch hike two or three times a week to Church Fenton, Dishforth, Leeming, Topcliffe, or Lindholme, ask for the ATC liaison officer and could usually get airborne in something. (They didn't often say 'Oh no, not you again'.) Times have changed.
I can't really blame the shrinking of station visits on the ATC organisation, there's a limit to how many visits one RAF Station can handle. Of the 5 Annual Camps I went to in the 1950's, only Kinloss is still an active base.
When at school in Leeds, during the summer holidays I would hitch hike two or three times a week to Church Fenton, Dishforth, Leeming, Topcliffe, or Lindholme, ask for the ATC liaison officer and could usually get airborne in something. (They didn't often say 'Oh no, not you again'.) Times have changed.
A touch unfair Chevvers. It's more like 6-8 weeks in my neck of the woods, 10 if you're very unlucky.
And the DBS (as we are reminded below it is now called!) is only required for "regular unsupervised access" so a temporary visitor could be "chaperoned" - and of course now that 18+ cadets must be DBS'd, those cadets could be the chaperone (or chaperon).
And the DBS (as we are reminded below it is now called!) is only required for "regular unsupervised access" so a temporary visitor could be "chaperoned" - and of course now that 18+ cadets must be DBS'd, those cadets could be the chaperone (or chaperon).
The system worked though. We had an ex RAF guy apply to join my squadron as a CI so sent off the forms. It was about 6 months before we got a short note from the Wg Ad O saying we were not to recruit him. We asked why, but Wg Ad O wouldn't tell us either by letter or on the phone.
Turns out this applicant had a 'record' whilst in the RAF of paedophile activites; we don't know if he was convicted or even charged, but it was enough for him to be excluded.
Last edited by chevvron; 22nd Dec 2017 at 17:21.
All i want for Xmas
Merry Xmas all.
Am just sourcing a very large sock for Santa and writing him a nice letter.
Dear Santa the ATC needs your help. Please supply the following for 2018.
60 Kirby Cadet MK3
20 MB Wilde Winches (twin drum)
40 Series one Land Rovers
15 Austin 1 Ton 4x4
60 drums cable
This will get us 'operational' again and we will train up the required staff cadets to get involved. To keep things simple we will go back to the Bl.... Bats (table tennis surplus white) and involve even more hands on input.
Once up and running the system will be 'self starting' and we will prob have a waiting list of people wishing to get involved. Many thanks and don't bother to contact HQ Air Cadets as they will no idea what its all about. Pobjoy
Am just sourcing a very large sock for Santa and writing him a nice letter.
Dear Santa the ATC needs your help. Please supply the following for 2018.
60 Kirby Cadet MK3
20 MB Wilde Winches (twin drum)
40 Series one Land Rovers
15 Austin 1 Ton 4x4
60 drums cable
This will get us 'operational' again and we will train up the required staff cadets to get involved. To keep things simple we will go back to the Bl.... Bats (table tennis surplus white) and involve even more hands on input.
Once up and running the system will be 'self starting' and we will prob have a waiting list of people wishing to get involved. Many thanks and don't bother to contact HQ Air Cadets as they will no idea what its all about. Pobjoy
The way ahead
Greetings O/Duff and 463.
Aldis lamps not needed with 'reliable bats', and we can house machines in simple poly structures, plus 'ferrules' only showing that you are far too young. We will use a simple axe, reef knot, and tape 'insulating' KISS. Caravan nice but not a 'control van' budget about £150 for one suitable for messing requirements, and temp overnight staff cadet accommodation for those early cable checks. We don't need quartermasters that's far too 'organised', and smacks of paperwork.
I am afraid the T21 will have to be sacrificed in the name of efficiency and no of days lost when the wind is too high. Once the Cadets are 'solo'ed' they can fly single seaters which are far more fun,(phase 2).
Anyway I see that you already 'warming' to the idea, so well done, its amazing what can be done with improvisation. Aerotowing will be introduced at an early stage to bring in some income to subsidise the operation. One thing though, we will NOT expect cadets to use wellies.
Aldis lamps not needed with 'reliable bats', and we can house machines in simple poly structures, plus 'ferrules' only showing that you are far too young. We will use a simple axe, reef knot, and tape 'insulating' KISS. Caravan nice but not a 'control van' budget about £150 for one suitable for messing requirements, and temp overnight staff cadet accommodation for those early cable checks. We don't need quartermasters that's far too 'organised', and smacks of paperwork.
I am afraid the T21 will have to be sacrificed in the name of efficiency and no of days lost when the wind is too high. Once the Cadets are 'solo'ed' they can fly single seaters which are far more fun,(phase 2).
Anyway I see that you already 'warming' to the idea, so well done, its amazing what can be done with improvisation. Aerotowing will be introduced at an early stage to bring in some income to subsidise the operation. One thing though, we will NOT expect cadets to use wellies.
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Paperwork
Ah C5 Yes there was some paperwork associated with the earlier equipment, but it was also backed up by qualified staff.
The MT section could look after all the motorised stuff, and NO 1 GC could repair the gliders.
We had a system that 'WORKED'.
However the real gem was the quality, capability, and self sustainability of the 'schools' who did not need to be shown how to suck eggs.
Anyway just a reminder and 'warning' of what can happen when someone thinks 'forms' can replace capability.
Merry Xmas all and 'ALL OUT' for 2018
The MT section could look after all the motorised stuff, and NO 1 GC could repair the gliders.
We had a system that 'WORKED'.
However the real gem was the quality, capability, and self sustainability of the 'schools' who did not need to be shown how to suck eggs.
Anyway just a reminder and 'warning' of what can happen when someone thinks 'forms' can replace capability.
Merry Xmas all and 'ALL OUT' for 2018
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Pobjoy
While I applaud your sentiments you have overlooked one fact of modern life, the parasites that will decsend on you if the smallest something goes wrong.
These parasites call themselves lawyers.
These parasites call themselves lawyers.
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Even if you got your fleet of T31s, regardless of the past, they would still now not be considered airworthy without the sort of paperwork that the ATC was unable to manage to keep up-to-date.
Probably incompatible with a world in which both you and a flying supervisor had to initial the auth sheet and solemnly write "Taxy only" before you could move a Vigilant from the hangar to the pan.
Permission to taxy
That's exactly why ACW we would not be part of the ATC/RAF/MOD just an affiliation to the BGA. Come on now;how could it be worse than the present screw up. Having destroyed a fine operation does not give the current set up the God given right to continue to pretend they have a clue about anything. They really are a disgrace and have no right to be in charge of even a Whelk stall. No disrespect to Whelk Stalls. The money spent on the top brass and all the advertising could cover a back to basics service. Dib Dib Dib !!!
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Pobjoy is right.
The BGA regulate with a very light touch. Our insurance made us get our C's of A done in good time by approved repairers. For the rest, as TO it was my job to keep the winches and land rovers in good running order. No mean feat with 'common user' vehicles and people who were not awfully good at driving. I spent many a weekday evening repairing the clutch operating rod on land rovers. When we eventually owned a Tiger, this animal also fell into my purview - this is what you get for once being an aircraft engine designer. In the average gliding club you will find skill sets which can cope with almost any problem. In the ATC I guess everything had to be organised by HQ - wasting time and effort.
We gave up 'bats' quite early on as the visibility on misty mornings made for mistakes. I also banned reef knots in the wire as it tended to bu**er up our winch paying in gear. With a good tool, ferrules were quicker and did less damage.
The BGA regulate with a very light touch. Our insurance made us get our C's of A done in good time by approved repairers. For the rest, as TO it was my job to keep the winches and land rovers in good running order. No mean feat with 'common user' vehicles and people who were not awfully good at driving. I spent many a weekday evening repairing the clutch operating rod on land rovers. When we eventually owned a Tiger, this animal also fell into my purview - this is what you get for once being an aircraft engine designer. In the average gliding club you will find skill sets which can cope with almost any problem. In the ATC I guess everything had to be organised by HQ - wasting time and effort.
We gave up 'bats' quite early on as the visibility on misty mornings made for mistakes. I also banned reef knots in the wire as it tended to bu**er up our winch paying in gear. With a good tool, ferrules were quicker and did less damage.
Merry Xmas all.
Am just sourcing a very large sock for Santa and writing him a nice letter.
Dear Santa the ATC needs your help. Please supply the following for 2018.
60 Kirby Cadet MK3
20 MB Wilde Winches (twin drum)
40 Series one Land Rovers
15 Austin 1 Ton 4x4
60 drums cable
This will get us 'operational' again and we will train up the required staff cadets to get involved. To keep things simple we will go back to the Bl.... Bats (table tennis surplus white) and involve even more hands on input.
Once up and running the system will be 'self starting' and we will prob have a waiting list of people wishing to get involved. Many thanks and don't bother to contact HQ Air Cadets as they will no idea what its all about. Pobjoy
Am just sourcing a very large sock for Santa and writing him a nice letter.
Dear Santa the ATC needs your help. Please supply the following for 2018.
60 Kirby Cadet MK3
20 MB Wilde Winches (twin drum)
40 Series one Land Rovers
15 Austin 1 Ton 4x4
60 drums cable
This will get us 'operational' again and we will train up the required staff cadets to get involved. To keep things simple we will go back to the Bl.... Bats (table tennis surplus white) and involve even more hands on input.
Once up and running the system will be 'self starting' and we will prob have a waiting list of people wishing to get involved. Many thanks and don't bother to contact HQ Air Cadets as they will no idea what its all about. Pobjoy
I've stated several times in this thread, Air Cadets do not 'need' something as high performance as the Viking and a return to low performance in order to get the cadets to solo standard easier should be called for.
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I agree with Pobjoy.
I've stated several times in this thread, Air Cadets do not 'need' something as high performance as the Viking and a return to low performance in order to get the cadets to solo standard easier should be called for.
I've stated several times in this thread, Air Cadets do not 'need' something as high performance as the Viking and a return to low performance in order to get the cadets to solo standard easier should be called for.
The BGA regulate with a very light touch.