Air Cadets grounded?
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Templeman Design
Looking at the link to the Syerston works website: £8.5M evidently doesn't buy verbs agreeing with their subject, consistent case and tense within a sentence or apostrophes placed where convention would dictate. Is this attention to detail symptomatic of the whole fiasco?
My first solo was in a T21 at Sealand: very sad that things have come to this.
My first solo was in a T21 at Sealand: very sad that things have come to this.
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This reminds me of the episode of "Yes Minister" where Jim Hacker and Sir Humphrey go to a brand new and expensive hospital costing millions of pounds and which is a hive of activity except that there are no patients.
Interfereing with the system
DC10 Thats quite right.
I seem to recall that when JH (the minister) asked why there were no patients Sir H said
:- It interfered with the smooth running of the system !
It really was a documentary,and still relevant.Sad thing is that the program could brings tears of joy and now we have just tears.
I seem to recall that when JH (the minister) asked why there were no patients Sir H said
:- It interfered with the smooth running of the system !
It really was a documentary,and still relevant.Sad thing is that the program could brings tears of joy and now we have just tears.
Latest STOP PRESS!
If this was a football club, the manager would have fallen on their sword by now as a result of the performance of his/her players.
There is no problem in spending money on upgrading the buildings and buying new winches, but to ground aircraft (which did not know they were unserviceable the day before) without a plan to get them flying immediately is a disaster for the whole Air Cadet Organisation.
Yes, I know the paperwork was suspect, but if this was in the "real" world of industry a plan would have been put in place before the grounding.
Heads must roll, and no more MBEs or OBEs for anybody involved.
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In the 21st Century Management do not "fall on their swords"
They blame others normally those junior to themselves or those "moved on" with the benefit of an large payoff normally at the taxpayers expense.
They blame others normally those junior to themselves or those "moved on" with the benefit of an large payoff normally at the taxpayers expense.
Yes Defence Minister
DC10 You are very naughty encouraging me to produce a new script for the proposed 'Yes Defence Minister' series.
Hacker insists on visiting a local VGS for the 75th anniversary
The darkened Range Rover is discreetly parked on the peri track some distance from the 'activity'.
Hacker insists on actually seeing it close up so is taken to the 'winch end' and finds a cardboard cut out full size model.
On querying this he is told it is a 'decoy' winch as thats how it was in the War.
Slightly puzzled by now he insists on seeing a line of parked gliders.
They nearly get away with that until he asks to sit in one;whereupon he finds they are in fact inflatable ones.
Sir H explains these are 'decoy' gliders because of the security situation.
Hacker (trying to look intelligent) asks where are all the staff.
Sir H 'cascading his hands' explains that they are 'pausing' at this moment.
Hacker (looking puzzled again) asks if this is a lunch pause !
Sir H says yes but they are on a long lunch pause today. (Sir Humphrey will claim later he thought the Minister said LAUNCH PAUSE)
Hacker now slightly bemused asks to visit the new hangar complex.
Despite protestations from Sir H regarding security,health and safety,and not being CRB checked Hacker insists on going inside to find it teeming with toddlers in blue romper suits jumping up and down and flapping their little arms.
Hacker (showing visible signs of shock and horror) turns to Sir H for an explanation .
Sir H bringing his years of training and dedication to the fore smiles and sweeping his arm across this swarming scene says
:- Minister these are the future of the Corps and they are training to PAUSE.
Hacker insists on visiting a local VGS for the 75th anniversary
The darkened Range Rover is discreetly parked on the peri track some distance from the 'activity'.
Hacker insists on actually seeing it close up so is taken to the 'winch end' and finds a cardboard cut out full size model.
On querying this he is told it is a 'decoy' winch as thats how it was in the War.
Slightly puzzled by now he insists on seeing a line of parked gliders.
They nearly get away with that until he asks to sit in one;whereupon he finds they are in fact inflatable ones.
Sir H explains these are 'decoy' gliders because of the security situation.
Hacker (trying to look intelligent) asks where are all the staff.
Sir H 'cascading his hands' explains that they are 'pausing' at this moment.
Hacker (looking puzzled again) asks if this is a lunch pause !
Sir H says yes but they are on a long lunch pause today. (Sir Humphrey will claim later he thought the Minister said LAUNCH PAUSE)
Hacker now slightly bemused asks to visit the new hangar complex.
Despite protestations from Sir H regarding security,health and safety,and not being CRB checked Hacker insists on going inside to find it teeming with toddlers in blue romper suits jumping up and down and flapping their little arms.
Hacker (showing visible signs of shock and horror) turns to Sir H for an explanation .
Sir H bringing his years of training and dedication to the fore smiles and sweeping his arm across this swarming scene says
:- Minister these are the future of the Corps and they are training to PAUSE.
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No, no NO.
There was no choice but to ground the gliders as soon as they found the suspect paperwork. Until each and every airframe is fully inspected no-one as any idea as to what actual defects are hidden behind the paperwork.
If there was one accident causing injury or lose of life in an airframe with defective paperwork the ATC would be put to the sword regardless of if there was any actual defect that contributed in any way.
This is exactly what any civilian club would do faced with a glider with dodgy paperwork. Way back in the thread I mention it's exactly what mine did in that situation.
There Is No Choice.
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It's not just the 'paperwork' - read the DHAN for an 'example' of other issues - a modification to the elevator.
Would you want to fly an aircraft that had a modification to a primary flight control that hadn't been through a design review process in association with the manufacturer/type certificate holder? and was undocumented? Are all of the mods the same? you'd have no way of knowing.
And it's acknowledged that a number of airframes that weren't in service prior to the pause were unserviceable because the 'maintenance contractor' (term used loosely) didn't have the skills to repair them.
7700
Would you want to fly an aircraft that had a modification to a primary flight control that hadn't been through a design review process in association with the manufacturer/type certificate holder? and was undocumented? Are all of the mods the same? you'd have no way of knowing.
And it's acknowledged that a number of airframes that weren't in service prior to the pause were unserviceable because the 'maintenance contractor' (term used loosely) didn't have the skills to repair them.
7700
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It's not just the 'paperwork' - read the DHAN for an 'example' of other issues - a modification to the elevator.
Would you want to fly an aircraft that had a modification to a primary flight control that hadn't been through a design review process in association with the manufacturer/type certificate holder? and was undocumented? Are all of the mods the same? you'd have no way of knowing.
And it's acknowledged that a number of airframes that weren't in service prior to the pause were unserviceable because the 'maintenance contractor' (term used loosely) didn't have the skills to repair them.
7700
Would you want to fly an aircraft that had a modification to a primary flight control that hadn't been through a design review process in association with the manufacturer/type certificate holder? and was undocumented? Are all of the mods the same? you'd have no way of knowing.
And it's acknowledged that a number of airframes that weren't in service prior to the pause were unserviceable because the 'maintenance contractor' (term used loosely) didn't have the skills to repair them.
7700
Hence "what actual defects are hidden behind the paperwork".
The one you mention is truly scary.
Gentleman Aviator
Just reminds me of the old trick question " how do you know when they're about to close a station ?" ANSWER = when they've just spent a load of £££££ on it !!
This is exactly what any civilian club would do faced with a glider with dodgy paperwork. Way back in the thread I mention it's exactly what mine did in that situation.
For a club it would mean lost revenue so something would be done immediately, no hand wringing like we have at the moment.
Last edited by Freda Checks; 5th Nov 2015 at 10:28.
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cats five - have a look here
[URL="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/234987/response/585814/attach/4/20140417%20Duty%20Holder%20Advice%20Notice%2086%20O.pdf"]
or put Duty Holder Advice Note 20140417 in to Google and the link is at the top of the first page - it makes sobering reading, would you let your kids fly in these gliders?
7700
[URL="https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/234987/response/585814/attach/4/20140417%20Duty%20Holder%20Advice%20Notice%2086%20O.pdf"]
or put Duty Holder Advice Note 20140417 in to Google and the link is at the top of the first page - it makes sobering reading, would you let your kids fly in these gliders?
7700
Last edited by squawking 7700; 5th Nov 2015 at 11:24. Reason: amendment
Gentleman Aviator
DHAN link is at post #764 on page 39.
And scary reading it makes too!
Unauthorised/uncleared elevator modifications FFS!
And scary reading it makes too!
Unauthorised/uncleared elevator modifications FFS!
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Got to love para 11 of document -
"11. Implications on Task. Significant impact on all glider operations. This impact will have to be carefully managed across the Air Cadet Organisation."
"11. Implications on Task. Significant impact on all glider operations. This impact will have to be carefully managed across the Air Cadet Organisation."
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The DHAN makes interesting reading. There is some unacceptable stuff in there for sure.
The question for me which no one seems to ask is 'Why ?'
The underpinning processes and paperwork are there. Why were they not followed ??
Arc
The question for me which no one seems to ask is 'Why ?'
The underpinning processes and paperwork are there. Why were they not followed ??
Arc
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why ?
Arclite01 the answer to your question is that the maintenance contractor was simply not up to the job, the management was lax, the people working on the aircraft had insufficient guidance and in some cases skill, the management also lacked leadership skills. You can also add a bit of good old fashioned trade union obstructiveness with a sprinkling of elf & safety political correctness. Add to this a total lack of the commercial drive that the military lacks and that keeps the civil world on its toes.
The reason for the poor management of the project is that the upper management was not prepared to pay the going rate for the job and so put people into roles that they did not have the skills and experience to forefill.
The cream of the joke is the upper management still don't get it !
They are advertising vastly under paid jobs that assumes that they will get the glider recovery project. There are at least two other defence contractors who are looking at this contract and one of them is offering the going rate for one of the positions ( just over £10k above the rate advertised by the current contractor ).
Only with people with the correct experience of project management along with a detailed knowlage of composite maintenance, repair and airworthiness oversight will the recovery program be a success.
I am confident that the RAF see this very clearly but the big question is can they get the cost past the bean counters ?
The reason for the poor management of the project is that the upper management was not prepared to pay the going rate for the job and so put people into roles that they did not have the skills and experience to forefill.
The cream of the joke is the upper management still don't get it !
They are advertising vastly under paid jobs that assumes that they will get the glider recovery project. There are at least two other defence contractors who are looking at this contract and one of them is offering the going rate for one of the positions ( just over £10k above the rate advertised by the current contractor ).
Only with people with the correct experience of project management along with a detailed knowlage of composite maintenance, repair and airworthiness oversight will the recovery program be a success.
I am confident that the RAF see this very clearly but the big question is can they get the cost past the bean counters ?
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Elevator
With regards the elevator, I am reliably informed that the issue was that a hinge used on other Grob control surfaces was used in place of the original. This was because it does not relly on single use fasteners.
It was a very sensible engineering decision, which did not have the correct administrative approvals. This has now been fully approved by DA/PT, and therefore the issue no longer exists!
Many of the issues with the glider fleets are far less dramatic than the titles alone would suggest!
It was a very sensible engineering decision, which did not have the correct administrative approvals. This has now been fully approved by DA/PT, and therefore the issue no longer exists!
Many of the issues with the glider fleets are far less dramatic than the titles alone would suggest!