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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 29th Sep 2019, 20:45
  #4861 (permalink)  
 
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Bigpants is correct. However, cadets are still flying.
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Old 30th Sep 2019, 00:06
  #4862 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DrinkGirls View Post
Bigpants is correct. However, cadets are still flying.
Not according to either 16(R) nor OC 5 AEF.
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Old 4th Oct 2019, 16:49
  #4863 (permalink)  
 
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OK look will ask when next flying but apparently these EFTS people are not holding pilots in staff positions but something else and yes the contracted RAF Flying Training System is a disaster area....well who would have predicted that?
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Old 5th Oct 2019, 08:32
  #4864 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by muppetofthenorth View Post
And that's happened for years. Happened when I was on a different UAS 13/14 years ago.
Met a guy in Gib when I was there for ATC Camp summer '82; he was 'holding' and was posted in to be 'Deputy ACLO'.
Met the same guy at Finningley 2 years later; still 'holding'.
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Old 9th Oct 2019, 08:38
  #4865 (permalink)  
 
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Hi Chevron, I was going through advanced fast jet training in 1982 and became a QFI at Valley later that year. Never heard of any fast jet pilots holding for that long back then so assume he was another branch...Nav or perhaps multi engined?

He was the exception, I finished BFTS at Cranwell on the Thursday, cleared Friday and started at 4 FTS on the Monday!
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 20:08
  #4866 (permalink)  
 
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Have a friend with British relatives. Their 15 yr old is airplane mad ( another poor young man with a blighted future ) and is thinking of joining the UK Air Cadets. Will he get any flying ?
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Old 30th Nov 2019, 22:26
  #4867 (permalink)  
 
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Air Cadet Flying

[QUOTE=Big Pistons Forever;10629913]Have a friend with British relatives. Their 15 yr old is airplane mad ( another poor young man with a blighted future ) and is thinking of joining the UK Air Cadets. Will he get any flying ?[/QUOTE

Sadly most of the youngsters who really want to fly are avoiding the Air Cadets or leave early.
Not surprising as their actual contact with real aircraft is minimal, and what was the jewel in the crown of hands on gliding has been reduced to a minimum and replaced by the joke that is the Part Task Trainer for badge attainment.
Of course the current Cadet membership never saw the Gliding operation 'as was' so are not aware of what has been lost., and the days of a local 'flying' RAF Station being available for ad hoc visits long gone.
As this thread has alluded to, real solo flight has all but been abandoned and replaced by a 'synthetic experience', with a brave attempt to get the Vigilant fleet back in business under a LAA supported scheme thwarted by those who were going to be somewhat embarrassed by them rising from the ashes of what had been a proud capable flying training organisation.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 07:22
  #4868 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Big Pistons Forever View Post
Have a friend with British relatives. Their 15 yr old is airplane mad ( another poor young man with a blighted future ) and is thinking of joining the UK Air Cadets. Will he get any flying ?
Despite the bleak outpourings of POBJOY who gives no alternative, the answer depends on which squadron he joins and his persistence. 'Twas ever thus.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 07:58
  #4869 (permalink)  
 
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Tell him to join a gliding club and spend weekends and summers pushing gliders, driving tractors and operating winches as well as getting flying. He'll probably be solo by 16. Air Cadets seem to be lost. Ex Cadet Warrant Officer.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 08:54
  #4870 (permalink)  
 
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Most Civilian Gliding Clubs have a 'Cadet' membership - where they get reduced membership fees etc and they can progress rapidly to bronze and siver badges these days.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 13:26
  #4871 (permalink)  
 
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Alternative flying

Originally Posted by beardy View Post
Despite the bleak outpourings of POBJOY who gives no alternative, the answer depends on which squadron he joins and his persistence. 'Twas ever thus.
Obviously did not read the post !!!
Alternative was to utilise the Vigilants with engineering support by the LAA (actually agreed with LAA and well within their capability). In essence no different to the original Ventures getting another lease of life.
As regard to access to Aircraft 'was ever thus' not true. The actual no of RAF airfields and aircraft is but a shadow of its former self, and that is why the ATC Gliding movement was such a gem of access to hands on basic flying. The multitude of posts about this only confirm how a volunteer / Civilian operation managed to train youngsters to solo standard in large numbers,(at low cost), It also confirms how the mainstream RAF/MOD failed that organisation. The facts are very clear they have tried to replace 'hands on' with synthetic: lots of badges, but no real life changing experience of solo flight. Spectacular lack of leadership from HQ Air Cadets and 2 FTS did not help the situation.

Last edited by POBJOY; 1st Dec 2019 at 13:32. Reason: add content
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 15:37
  #4872 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
The facts are very clear they have tried to replace 'hands on' with synthetic: lots of badges, but no real life changing experience of solo flight.
Except, that isn't true.
If you actually look at the requirements of the PTS for flying and gliding you'll see that nothing is awarded for synthetic training alone, and rather only for synthetic and actual hands on flying.
Yes, there is a perception that they're getting a badge for a lot less work than previous, but it's not being held in the same regard.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 18:26
  #4873 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by POBJOY View Post
Obviously did not read the post !!!
Alternative was to utilise the Vigilants with engineering support by the LAA (actually agreed with LAA and well within their capability). In essence no different to the original Ventures getting another lease of life.
As regard to access to Aircraft 'was ever thus' not true. The actual no of RAF airfields and aircraft is but a shadow of its former self, and that is why the ATC Gliding movement was such a gem of access to hands on basic flying. The multitude of posts about this only confirm how a volunteer / Civilian operation managed to train youngsters to solo standard in large numbers,(at low cost), It also confirms how the mainstream RAF/MOD failed that organisation. The facts are very clear they have tried to replace 'hands on' with synthetic: lots of badges, but no real life changing experience of solo flight. Spectacular lack of leadership from HQ Air Cadets and 2 FTS did not help the situation.
It was always dependant on which squadron one joined and on persistence. 'Twas ever thus.

And yes I did read your doom laden post.
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Old 1st Dec 2019, 19:07
  #4874 (permalink)  
 
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Is there any update (or at least, fresh rumour!) about the fate of the Vigilants?

Are they going to be scrapped or sold on, and if sold on why the apparent delay? I hope the engines at least are properly inhibited, wherever they are now (Little Riss, is it?).
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 08:52
  #4875 (permalink)  
 
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Fate of Vigilants

Originally Posted by hoodie View Post
Is there any update (or at least, fresh rumour!) about the fate of the Vigilants?

Are they going to be scrapped or sold on, and if sold on why the apparent delay? I hope the engines at least are properly inhibited, wherever they are now (Little Riss, is it?).
The powers to be do not want the Vigilants to rise again in their current form, and the VW based Grob motor will have to be replaced by a Rotax, and possibly a new panel.
The cost of this with associate replumb, and firewall forward items will also require a new certification from Grob.
An alternative route of return to flight with the LAA involved was far to easy and would have seen many machines back in the air and available for ongoing use.
Of course this would also have no doubt raised the question of why they were pulled from service, Many of the engines were on extensions of hours and Grob are no longer in the 'engine ' business (Actually the engine is based on the VW type 4 motor) but under the LAA the engine could have easily been OH with new parts and continued.
The former Ventures (VW Engine) are still flying so the process was quite viable.

Last edited by POBJOY; 2nd Dec 2019 at 16:00.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 09:43
  #4876 (permalink)  
 
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I've met a couple of Air Cadets - kids of colleagues, in the last year and TBH the "flying" bit didn't seem to be a major driver to them. They liked the discipline, the training and the chance to "lead" and "take part" with kids of their own age. Both were very well turned out and would impress any interviewer (business or academic) IMHO. The training made them articulate and focused compared to their peer group.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 10:16
  #4877 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
in the last year and TBH the "flying" bit didn't seem to be a major driver to them.
Perhaps that's what MoD has been hoping for? It's been 5 years since the grounding, so most cadets who remember flying being routine are now gone. There is no longer an expectation.

But pleased to hear of articulate youngsters. No chance of a job in the media or politics though.
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 11:54
  #4878 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for the update, POBJOY.

Does that mean that the engine and maybe panel upgrades will happen if the aircraft are sold on, and there is a plan for the sale?

Or is it simply that it could happen, and it is still uncertain whether the fleet will be scrapped?
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 16:28
  #4879 (permalink)  
 
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If they are interested in flying then the air cadets is still a great place for them. The solo element of flying hasnít left and several VGSs are back to having cadets flying cadets. Sure if they have rich parents then there are faster and guaranteed ways to buy yourself into aviation. Being an air cadet or part of any youth organisation offers far more than just flying, as alluded to in other posts. The air cadets are not grounded but this thread that fails to die must be putting some people of.

Also please tell me more about other retired types we could get back in the air... Iím a big fan of the gannet
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Old 2nd Dec 2019, 16:36
  #4880 (permalink)  
 
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Hoodie To be honest i do not think there was a real attempt from the RAF/MOD to see these machine go on to another lease of life in their current form.
Despite any cogent tech reason for this and the genuine LAA support (the Tech masters in this field) a very expensive option of re-engine and certification for future use.was considered to be the ONLY option to release then out of service use. Had the LAA themselves offered to take the fleet and operate them 'in house' for very economical youngster flight experience then it would have been very hard to find fault with that option, but this was not on the table at the time.
The actual machines have many years of life left and the engines can easily be overhauled, as high spec replacement parts are readily available.
Considering the original machines were used for Cadet training (including solo flight) then it must be seen that they performed well despite not being designed for the job. Anyone who went through a 'Vigilant' Cadet training course would have had a very good introduction of light aircraft handling plus the added 'delight' of mastering a tail wheel machine. None of this would have been wasted when progressing on to other types so it has to be said that the decision to introduce the Vigilant was sound. Another factor for their use was the ongoing difficulty in finding suitable sites for the conventional winch launch gliding which was proving difficult to co habit with regular RAF airfields or Civ GA locations.

Last edited by POBJOY; 2nd Dec 2019 at 16:50.
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