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Air Cadets grounded?

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Air Cadets grounded?

Old 25th Jun 2017, 17:56
  #3601 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
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winch training

VX Back along most of the staff cadets were not all car drivers when they started, nor old enough to actually drive on the road. They always started on the winch doing cable checks (axe and tape) and then those that still had hands and fingers were allowed to drive the winch during the checks. Because AE flying had come in it was then easy to progress the SC to launching 'instructor flown details'. After a suitable time and monitoring the SC could launch all details other than first solo's. It was then only a short time before he would be cleared for all launching. This was a fine intro to machinery and also would include fitting a new cable and ensuring the paying on gear was properly in line. When old enough for a RAF driving licence the SC would have had 'dual' on operating the truck and also basic uses including cable retrieve, glider retrieve, and correct use of high/low/fwd. The parent station would then arrange a standard type test and issue a licence on type for camp/airfield use. When required the same system applied to the Austin 1 ton and would include winch towing.

Last edited by POBJOY; 25th Jun 2017 at 18:23. Reason: add content
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 19:40
  #3602 (permalink)  
 
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Process, Risk and 'Growing our Young People'

We should guard against becoming consumed by process, and trying to come up with a process for everything - in some misguided attempt to reduce risk to zero. In the end we would end up with people who stop thinking for themselves, and as a consequence risk actually increases. There is a balance point. We need to leave enough latitude for people to show initiative in striving to improve within a relatively broad framework. Even AP8000 (the RAF manual of Air Safety) says (in the Chief of the Air Staff's foreword) that 'risk aversion is not acceptable'. If we want our young people to become 'agile, adaptable and capable' then we need to give them sufficient space to 'grow'. That entails an environment of controlled risk and not some quest for zero risk (and thus zero gain).

I like the British Army's definition of adventurous training: "Challenging outdoor training for Service personnel in specified adventurous activities, involving controlled exposure to risk, in order to develop leadership, teamwork, physical fitness, moral and physical courage, among other personal attributes and skills vital to Operational capability." Some of the things that POBJOY has been talking about.
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 20:49
  #3603 (permalink)  
 
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ATFQ

What you say is right, but I don't think CAS is referring to 13 year old civilian cadets who were exposed to MoD's gambling, which is not the same as controlled exposure to risk.
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Old 25th Jun 2017, 21:34
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Controlled risk

ATFQ We were so lucky in the days of the 'schools' to have this system.
to be sure there was control; but also plenty of latitude to 'self develop' and become part of the on going system. Part of the control was the knowledge that if you let the system down then your required attendance was in doubt, and that was much better than trying to provide heaps of paperwork and box ticking. In fact the Air Force itself were hardly aware of how we operated, and those of us privileged to be on a historic parent station had no intention of the school being seen as anything other than a normal lodger unit with high standards of operation. However the organisation was well led and very Air Minded at the top.
When Kenly had a parade our cadets were well drilled and smart therefore the SWO had no axe to grind that we let his station down.
The simple truth was we were so pleased to be part of the organisation that the thought of NOT BEING THERE was control enough. And just to appease the H&S bods, I can state that in all my time when we operated the chop and change cable knots, we never had an incident that required attention by the medics.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 07:30
  #3605 (permalink)  
 
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dervish sums up the sorry mess in one sentence. UK military aviation has been infected with the most deadly virus possible by MOD recklessness, ie infected with unairworthiness. Far from seeking to reduce any risk to zero, it has been MOD policy to cover up that recklessness for the past thirty years, rather than ensuring that effective regulation and investigation prevent airworthiness related accidents in the first place or failing that prevent their repetition.

Instead of ensuring a systemic cure to a systemic problem, the MOD has chosen instead to stove pipe each airworthiness related accident or fleet. Thus the UK, a maritime nation, has lost its maritime air capability UFN. Thus the RAF has lost its seed corn attraction, the Air Cadets gliders UFN. What it cannot do of course is ground its core operational fleets, despite them being just as exposed to the systemic damage caused some thirty years ago and covered up since.

The MAA is part of that cover up and hence part of the problem. Unless and until it is separate and independent of the MOD it remains part of the cover up. Ditto the MilAAIB (or whatever the sign writers call it today).

Self Regulation Doesn't Work and in Aviation It Kills!
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 12:19
  #3606 (permalink)  
 
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dervish and Chugalug I couldn't agree more.








As for learning to drive a winch as a staff cadet, it was akin to an apprenticeship in my day. Learning about launching gliders safely in various wind conditions cannot be done in a course lasting a few days.


I fear the day when they weld the hangar doors shut is fast approaching.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 15:33
  #3607 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VX275 View Post
Back in 79 I watched a C Cat as he launched two gliders with the two cables on the Bedford winch, he then talked me through the next pair, after that I was on my own. I don't think 'my course' lasted much longer than half an hour. These days it will be a week at Syerston.
Much the same experience here VX.
My '65 summer holiday job didn't materialise; there was a summer course on at Halton, so monday morning I hitchhiked there, having arrived home from camp on the saturday. They were pleased to see me as no other staff cadets had been able to make it, meaning the instructors would have to do winching, cable retrieve, Mk3 retrieve trolley etc.
My mate Chris, then still a cadet but a 'C' Cat instructor who later went professional becoming a BGA National Coach, took me to the winches. We had 2 x twin drum Wilds with Bedford engines parked side by side so one driver could operate 4 cables and they could be retrieved all together. Chris did a couple of launches, then watched as I did a couple, then he hooked the cables onto the back of the one tonner to tow them to the launch point and left me on my own!
Several hours later, Jacko, the CO arrived at the winch, saw me driving solo, said '(harumph) I see you're progressing Clark', watched me handle the remaining cables then took the next retrieve truck to the launch point. I guess that was my 'official' checkout.
My daily reward of course was a couple of Mk3 flights per day preceded by a check flight, plus on the wednesday, Jacko checked me out - in VX275! - and I did 4 solo trips in the Sedburgh! On the thursday, as I arrived at the launch point, Phil Plows, the CFI and OiC course, said 'take that Mk 3 Clark, we won't bother with a check flight, as far as I'm concerned you're P1 as from now.'

Last edited by chevvron; 27th Jun 2017 at 10:03.
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Old 26th Jun 2017, 21:46
  #3608 (permalink)  
 
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VGS to AEF?

Does anyone know how many VGS mates made the transition to the AEF Tutor? I know of two (one ex-633 and one ex-637) but are there more?
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 05:43
  #3609 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ACW599 View Post
Does anyone know how many VGS mates made the transition to the AEF Tutor? I know of two (one ex-633 and one ex-637) but are there more?
I know of one ex-612 and also one ex-613 who became a RAF pilot.
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 07:28
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I remember the trappers coming for a visit once and during a weather break a new shiny (ex-Vigilant VGS) trapper decided it was time to give our staff cadets a winching exam. He was the type that knew it all on paper, however, the staff cadets were great and kept asking about the wind direction and if the aircraft was being flown solo or dual, by the cadet or instructor. He left the exam more confused than when he went in!

OB
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 10:02
  #3611 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ACW599 View Post
Does anyone know how many VGS mates made the transition to the AEF Tutor? I know of two (one ex-633 and one ex-637) but are there more?
Certainly as someone says, 1 ex Abingdon (612) but not cleared for Cadet pax yet , one ex Henlow , another ex Odiham (618) , and one ex OC Linton (642) the latter of which is also a Flight Commander at an AEF and soon will be an instructor rated as a VR(T) due to his extensive experience which has been authorised by the RAF at the highest level.
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 18:36
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I know of two others ex OC 663 and OC 664vgs both flying on AEF, and I believe two other 663 are in the conversion process.
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 21:33
  #3613 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EnigmAviation View Post
Certainly as someone says, 1 ex Abingdon (612) but not cleared for Cadet pax yet , one ex Henlow , another ex Odiham (618) , and one ex OC Linton (642) the latter of which is also a Flight Commander at an AEF and soon will be an instructor rated as a VR(T) due to his extensive experience which has been authorised by the RAF at the highest level.
So that suggests a grand total of six. Many thanks.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 09:21
  #3614 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ACW599 View Post
Does anyone know how many VGS mates made the transition to the AEF Tutor? I know of two (one ex-633 and one ex-637) but are there more?

The majority are unable to "assist cadets on the controls" in a Grob 115 because they a too highly qualified having PPL's and many years/hours experience teaching GS students, oh and many are civvie not VRT.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 11:07
  #3615 (permalink)  
 
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Hangar - Wot hangar?

dakkg651. Sadly at what was 664 at Newtownards ,our hangar (heated), hardstanding and Sqn. Buildings have all been given, Lock Stock and Smoking barrel, free, gratis and for nothing to the Ulster Flying Club.

A342
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 11:36
  #3616 (permalink)  
 
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ACW342. That is so sad, not only for the staff but for the cadets too. Where is it proposed they do there flying now?


I am so glad I got out before the rot set in. It would have broken my heart.
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 12:50
  #3617 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently and subject to approval, there is a proposal to resume gliding at Swanton Morley by moving 614 in there at some point...
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 13:00
  #3618 (permalink)  
 
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Sadly at what was 664 at Newtownards ,our hangar (heated), hardstanding and Sqn. Buildings have all been given, Lock Stock and Smoking barrel, free, gratis and for nothing to the Ulster Flying Club.
Shameful. With hindsight, I wonder if the President of the Ulster ATC might have had a word with the MAA DG..........
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 13:08
  #3619 (permalink)  
 
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Has that been confirmed for Swanton Morley then ??

No hangars there now though....... :-(

If that is true it is good news.........

Arc
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Old 28th Jun 2017, 13:40
  #3620 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ACW342 View Post
dakkg651. Sadly at what was 664 at Newtownards ,our hangar (heated), hardstanding and Sqn. Buildings have all been given, Lock Stock and Smoking barrel, free, gratis and for nothing to the Ulster Flying Club.

A342
It wouldn't surprise me if those were the terms of the lease, especially if the buildings had been in place for 21 years or more. Welcome to land tenancy rules.
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