Global Aviation Magazine : 60 Years of the Hercules
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Mal Drop ...
I did my homework last night on LORAN ... and in doing so came across a rather interesting publication from DECCA called "Decca Navigator News" dated Sep 1966. Section 6 covers the decision to install LORAN C/A in the RAF Hercules K (amongst others) while Section 10 covers the wider topic of Hyperbolic Navigation.
Actually a very interesting read ... and thought you might be interested
http://www.deccanavigator.com/pdfs/D...7_Sep_1966.pdf
Don't worry ... no "wiggly amps" !
Best ...
Coff.
I did my homework last night on LORAN ... and in doing so came across a rather interesting publication from DECCA called "Decca Navigator News" dated Sep 1966. Section 6 covers the decision to install LORAN C/A in the RAF Hercules K (amongst others) while Section 10 covers the wider topic of Hyperbolic Navigation.
Actually a very interesting read ... and thought you might be interested
http://www.deccanavigator.com/pdfs/D...7_Sep_1966.pdf
Don't worry ... no "wiggly amps" !
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 15th Aug 2014 at 12:55.
That's some good digging Coff!
That kit shown above (and on page 7 of the linked document) was the old oscilloscope version we used for transatlantic routes. It was all a bit 'black magic' but basically worked around capturing a signal and then locking the third-cycle (the make a fish exercise).
I recall being on a route which grew like topsy and involved us taking fairly long breaks at out-of-the-way USAF bases and occasionally popping back to airfields we thought we were done with. At one stage (having been re-united with my suitcase which had been offloaded on the first flag stop at Lajes by a junior Loadie on a thinly disguised chop ride with STANEVAL), both navs had reverted to the feral state. Whilst waiting for our flight plans back to Lyneham to be accepted, we broke up the monotony of watching episodes of Mr. Rodgers in Flight Planning (it's a beautiful day in the neighbourhood) by having competitions to see who could sprint up the crew steps, fire up the kit and make a fish fastest. The result was a draw as it was subsequently proven that we were both clinically insane.
That kit shown above (and on page 7 of the linked document) was the old oscilloscope version we used for transatlantic routes. It was all a bit 'black magic' but basically worked around capturing a signal and then locking the third-cycle (the make a fish exercise).
I recall being on a route which grew like topsy and involved us taking fairly long breaks at out-of-the-way USAF bases and occasionally popping back to airfields we thought we were done with. At one stage (having been re-united with my suitcase which had been offloaded on the first flag stop at Lajes by a junior Loadie on a thinly disguised chop ride with STANEVAL), both navs had reverted to the feral state. Whilst waiting for our flight plans back to Lyneham to be accepted, we broke up the monotony of watching episodes of Mr. Rodgers in Flight Planning (it's a beautiful day in the neighbourhood) by having competitions to see who could sprint up the crew steps, fire up the kit and make a fish fastest. The result was a draw as it was subsequently proven that we were both clinically insane.
Still with the Op Granby theme. This is the mountain of kit we all had to drag around the route. Not to mention the 9mm and the ammo. No secure storage was arranged for any of it. You may recognise some of the 'usual culprits' !
Two recollections of the Big Green Bag phase of GRANBY.
1. A 30 Sqn Nav who had in a previous incarnation banged out of an F4 had his flying career ended by the effects of manhandling those bloody things on and off Albert.
2. OC 30 (who did not have a big fanbase although I liked him) came up with the bright idea of using folks who were in holding posts to meet the inbound aircraft, do the heavy lifting and storing of the Big Green Bags in a hangar, and to similarly help out when it came to departure. Given the way that the standard TASF/Inflight/Ops/Armoury/Messes mystery bus tours of Novelty Island ate into ground time, it was one of the better cunning plans that I encountered...
1. A 30 Sqn Nav who had in a previous incarnation banged out of an F4 had his flying career ended by the effects of manhandling those bloody things on and off Albert.
2. OC 30 (who did not have a big fanbase although I liked him) came up with the bright idea of using folks who were in holding posts to meet the inbound aircraft, do the heavy lifting and storing of the Big Green Bags in a hangar, and to similarly help out when it came to departure. Given the way that the standard TASF/Inflight/Ops/Armoury/Messes mystery bus tours of Novelty Island ate into ground time, it was one of the better cunning plans that I encountered...
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AA62/MalDrop
So what did the Big Green Bags contain?
Coff
I am seriously worried about you - firstly by the amount of time you seem to spend on Pprune, and secondly and more importantly, your choice of reading when you are NOT on this site.
So what did the Big Green Bags contain?
Coff
I am seriously worried about you - firstly by the amount of time you seem to spend on Pprune, and secondly and more importantly, your choice of reading when you are NOT on this site.
I think the BGBs were mainly spare NBC ground kit (about three suits, spare respirator canisters etc.) and our AR5 kit (charcoal coverall liners, socks, long-johns, green cloth helmet etc.). The long rectangular bags in AA62s picture are the cases for the actual AR5 respirators. There were also the Combi-pens and a stack of other stuff that would only be needed if the excrement/ventilator interface went fully brown. I can only assume that given the weight of the BGBs we were also supplied with depleted uranium diving boots and a full complement of lucky chain tensioners.
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Nimbev ... No need to worry about me old chap ... I'm just a tad addicted to crew room banter, good friendships and a smattering of things mil aeronautical ... along with a good measure of humour
Having been a member of a crew room for some nine years as a young man, on a volunteer basis ... but sadly not good enough to be a RAF Pilot ... sharing the company of some great guys who flew in WWII, the 50's and 60's ... PPRuNe, and threads like this, come close to reliving a very happy time I enjoyed many years ago ...
Off on hols next week ... so I won't be around
Having been a member of a crew room for some nine years as a young man, on a volunteer basis ... but sadly not good enough to be a RAF Pilot ... sharing the company of some great guys who flew in WWII, the 50's and 60's ... PPRuNe, and threads like this, come close to reliving a very happy time I enjoyed many years ago ...
Off on hols next week ... so I won't be around
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sadly not good enough to be a RAF Pilot
Anyway I still think that a LORAN manual is NOT suitable bed time reading
Have a good holiday
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I still remember my first pond crossing on 242 OCU. Found the fish ok, got to the first chain change and did so successfully. A couple of minutes later my screen nav returned to the flight deck (I had not noticed his absence and being an independent sort of chap didn't seek permission to fiddle with my Fisher Price Activity Set) and instructed me to change back to the original chain and imediately change back to the new 'follow the fish'.
Also remember crossing the pond Westbound, only to find no Loran going East a few days later. Seems they switched the bloody thing off whilst we were Stateside. As a true professional I finished my chicken wings close to top of climb and 'read' them on the return leg.
Also remember crossing the pond Westbound, only to find no Loran going East a few days later. Seems they switched the bloody thing off whilst we were Stateside. As a true professional I finished my chicken wings close to top of climb and 'read' them on the return leg.
Mal Drop,
your description of the contents in my pic sums it up nicely. There were no real decontam facilities in theatre and the dragging around of all that junk was pure lip service farce at the very least.
your description of the contents in my pic sums it up nicely. There were no real decontam facilities in theatre and the dragging around of all that junk was pure lip service farce at the very least.
A real blast from the past. Some very interesting routes in this little publication.
I too will be away until Thursday but no doubt someone can keep the thread going till my next pic.
Have a good leave you chaps, in the meantime perhaps we could look at Stations/units that Albert has operated from since its entry to service. My own personal introduction to the C130K came in March 1971 on posting to RAF Colerne, atop Bannerdown Hill. As one of six ex 214 Craft Apprentice entry arrivals I was initially accommodated in a Nissan hut, just down the road from SHQ. It had the standard coke stove, and we took it in turns to keep it fired up through the nights.
Colerne had six C130K second line servicing teams, 4 did Base 2 (minor) servicings and 2 did Base 3 ( major) servicings. As White team, a Base 3 team, had a Flight Sergeant manager called Norman Smith, I was allocated to them, with a rumour being spread that I was his son, resulting in my being a little mistrusted for a while, until all became clear. A Base 3 servicing took around 4 weeks (plus overtime) to complete, and was followed by an airtest. Colerne had its own Air Test Crew under the Captaincy of Sqdn Ldr Whelch during my time. The other names I remember is the Air Engineer, Bert Poulton, who inspired my application for Air Engineer a couple of years later, and the "Air test crew" Loady, Roy Gaunt, who introduced me to gliding with Bannerdown gliding Club, based at Colerne at the time. From a techy point of view, Colerne was hard work, but getting stuck in had its rewards, with the teams always having a great social time, and a sense of belonging. For a young 18 year old lad, just out of Halton, having experienced the Hunter as the advanced Airframe, Albert was a whole new world, apart from its huge size (to me at the time) new words like empennage, snubber valve and falsework all entered my vocabulary, and a sharp learning curve soon brought me up to speed. My Air Eng attempt was in my third year at Colerne, I went through the Biggin Hill system to be told that they felt I was too immature at the time to credibly hold SNCO rank! and would benefit if I re applied in a years time. One year later I was busy enjoying Akrotiri with Kilwhang, and I never gave Air Eng a thought after that, although, he didn't do badly
I'm sure many have happy memories of their first association with Albert, its curious that some 27 years later I ended my career as the team manager of Blue team at RAF Lyneham, a direct successor of the Colerne teams. I'm sure there must be some with happy memories of Fairford, Thorney Island and other units associated with Albert over the years. Let's be having you while the aircrew are having a break
Smudge
Colerne had six C130K second line servicing teams, 4 did Base 2 (minor) servicings and 2 did Base 3 ( major) servicings. As White team, a Base 3 team, had a Flight Sergeant manager called Norman Smith, I was allocated to them, with a rumour being spread that I was his son, resulting in my being a little mistrusted for a while, until all became clear. A Base 3 servicing took around 4 weeks (plus overtime) to complete, and was followed by an airtest. Colerne had its own Air Test Crew under the Captaincy of Sqdn Ldr Whelch during my time. The other names I remember is the Air Engineer, Bert Poulton, who inspired my application for Air Engineer a couple of years later, and the "Air test crew" Loady, Roy Gaunt, who introduced me to gliding with Bannerdown gliding Club, based at Colerne at the time. From a techy point of view, Colerne was hard work, but getting stuck in had its rewards, with the teams always having a great social time, and a sense of belonging. For a young 18 year old lad, just out of Halton, having experienced the Hunter as the advanced Airframe, Albert was a whole new world, apart from its huge size (to me at the time) new words like empennage, snubber valve and falsework all entered my vocabulary, and a sharp learning curve soon brought me up to speed. My Air Eng attempt was in my third year at Colerne, I went through the Biggin Hill system to be told that they felt I was too immature at the time to credibly hold SNCO rank! and would benefit if I re applied in a years time. One year later I was busy enjoying Akrotiri with Kilwhang, and I never gave Air Eng a thought after that, although, he didn't do badly
I'm sure many have happy memories of their first association with Albert, its curious that some 27 years later I ended my career as the team manager of Blue team at RAF Lyneham, a direct successor of the Colerne teams. I'm sure there must be some with happy memories of Fairford, Thorney Island and other units associated with Albert over the years. Let's be having you while the aircrew are having a break
Smudge
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Smuj
S/L Whelch was a flight commander when 24 reformed with Hercs. On one of the very early trips we were approaching an airways reporting point at Helgoland when he came out with the classic, 'last time I flew over here I was bombing it'!
Air Test Crew under the Captaincy of Sqdn Ldr Whelch
Nimbev,
And there goes me learning something new again. I never knew he was a WW2 pilot. I had a bit of a thing for flying, and often "volunteered" to be test crew fodder, getting the chance to fly was a real bonus. And that Air test crew were a good bunch to fly with. Thanks for that, I'll put it in the memory banks.
Smudge
And there goes me learning something new again. I never knew he was a WW2 pilot. I had a bit of a thing for flying, and often "volunteered" to be test crew fodder, getting the chance to fly was a real bonus. And that Air test crew were a good bunch to fly with. Thanks for that, I'll put it in the memory banks.
Smudge
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Originally Posted by smujsmith
while the aircrew are having a break
I wonder if a couple of Ks are missing from their "deactivation storage location" as well - "No, Secretary-General Ban, the RAF has no C-130s in that area, and if there are someone's C-130s there they certainly are not crewed by RAF personnel."
Look - are those wild geese flying?
AA62 - Sector Fuel Payload Tables
I'd forgotten we used to get a new copy every 3 months - in fact I'd forgotten them completely! I can remember the ODM Vol 2 that weighed down my nav' bag. Thank goodness we didn't do the Perf' A stuff as well, but IIRC the shiney fleet navs did do the take-off calculations.
CK sends his regards.
Nimbev
Were you one of the 25 crews who trained in the States? I was on 4 Course ( first baby-nav posted to the K from nav' school, though because of holding time there were 4 of us on the course ). From 5 Course onwards the flood gates for first tourists opened. Talking of which, my old mate Arthur and his lady stopped for lunch on their way north. The jammy devil left at 55 having had only one ground tour, which was as a sim' instructor at Thorney where he had to maintain his flying cat' ! To think I left at 8 yr option because I had been given a ground tour.
CK sends his regards.
Nimbev
Were you one of the 25 crews who trained in the States? I was on 4 Course ( first baby-nav posted to the K from nav' school, though because of holding time there were 4 of us on the course ). From 5 Course onwards the flood gates for first tourists opened. Talking of which, my old mate Arthur and his lady stopped for lunch on their way north. The jammy devil left at 55 having had only one ground tour, which was as a sim' instructor at Thorney where he had to maintain his flying cat' ! To think I left at 8 yr option because I had been given a ground tour.
Last edited by Brian 48nav; 17th Aug 2014 at 08:44. Reason: add word; wrong place
Greenknight,
If only. I now have visions of "flight of the old dog" etc. let's see what they come back and admit to. I'm sure it's one of Beagles Barbies they don't want us all to turn up to.
Smudge
If only. I now have visions of "flight of the old dog" etc. let's see what they come back and admit to. I'm sure it's one of Beagles Barbies they don't want us all to turn up to.
Smudge
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Brian
No, I didnt do the Herc course in USA. I must have been after you at Thorney, I cant remember the course number, but we started about Aug 1967 and finished Feb 1968. I then went to 24 which was the second UK sqn to form. As you said, there were lots of baby navs around the Hercs then. We had 24 navs on the sqn and I recon well over half were first tourists.
No, I didnt do the Herc course in USA. I must have been after you at Thorney, I cant remember the course number, but we started about Aug 1967 and finished Feb 1968. I then went to 24 which was the second UK sqn to form. As you said, there were lots of baby navs around the Hercs then. We had 24 navs on the sqn and I recon well over half were first tourists.