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UK maybe procuring AH-64E.

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UK maybe procuring AH-64E.

Old 20th Mar 2014, 21:07
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UK maybe procuring AH-64E.

If procurement does go ahead, can see Rolls Royce being out of an engine retrofit, as the Echo has 2,000 SHP GE T-700s standard.

AH-64E looking increasingly likely for UK - IHS Jane's 360
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 21:34
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Or we could buy 200 A-10's for pennies, then just field 50 of them and use the rest for spares for the next 30 years.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 22:03
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Or Both...

Probably end up getting the AH-64E's, retro-fitting them with UK engines and parking them up in some dusty hanger somewhere for 10 years while the MOD and the Contractor argue over the misconstrued expectation that they are actually expected to fly after the fit. Contractors defence being that the contract didnt actually specify it!

Out of interest... How many A-10's could you fit on a QE Class .... ? Never mind about the taking off bit, that's a mere technicality...
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 22:11
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Or we could buy 200 A-10's for pennies, then just field 50 of them and use the rest for spares for the next 30 years.
The A10 would be no good as it needs a runway to operate from. What we need is something that can takeoff and land vertically.

Hold on a minute............ didn't we just???...................... Oh, never mind!
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 22:18
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retro-fitting them with UK engines and parking them up in some dusty hanger somewhere
And that's our strength. We might have a rapidly shrinking fleet of military aircraft but we have an abundance of dusty hangars
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 22:25
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Vendee

I realise I'm just stirring the sh1t here but just how many times did the Harrier take off and land vertically during it's time on land in Afghanistan? Did it not use the same runway as the A10s?
Your point has merit but it can't really be used with reference to recent operational experience.
BV
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 22:42
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BV

I was being sarcastic. I know the Harriers were clapped out and also their runway requirements. Besides, I'm currently involved with the AH64D's and it would be in my interests if we bought the AH64E
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 23:36
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Contractors defence being that the contract didnt actually specify it!
Just like the original AH-64 contract!
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 23:47
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I don't think that Rolls-Royce would care as they are getting out of the helicopter engine business. They no longer have a stake in the current Apache since they sold their share of RRTM to TM.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 00:56
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'The decision to axe Harrier was bonkers...'

I'll get me coat!

-RP
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 06:15
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Hold on chaps, I have a much better idea... Hear me out..

Why don't we design our own attack helicopter?!! Rather than buying one ready made of here shelf, tried and tested, with spares in abundance, let's design and build our own from scratch!? Actually that's going to cost slightly more, so let's maybe let the Italians get involved too, I mean it worked for the Merlin? Those were a lot cheaper and a lot better than anything that was on the shelf weren't they?
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:10
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but just how many times did the Harrier take off and land vertically during it's time on land in Afghanistan?
Short take off and landing, a lot.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 09:56
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I'm guessing they might get them - flog off the D's in part exchange but 18 at the very best, maybe less. By then everything will be absorbed into the RFC, saving all round.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:54
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Originally Posted by peter we
Short take off and landing, a lot.
The point was that this was on the same strip at Kandahar that was being used by the decidedly non-STOVL A-10 (which also has about three times the endurance of a Harrier and is only marginally slower!)
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 10:58
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I'm guessing they might get them - flog off the D's in part exchange but 18 at the very best, maybe less.
Having spoken to Boeing and the British Army on this very subject, the most likely scenario is that an undisclosed number of the 66 Ds would be 'remanufactured' to Es (new airframes, but with the old engines, MTADS/PNVS, fire control system etc). How many has yet to be determined (or at least announced).

It's win-win really, as you're essentially getting new aircraft but at a significant fraction of the cost (the expense is primarily locked up in the parts and systems you're cross-decking)
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 11:36
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Not in the least surprised its the Boeing/AAC's perceived most likely scenario. Just got to add the bean counters into that equation.

I'm still betting 18 at the very best.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 11:48
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Not in the least surprised its the Boeing/AAC's perceived most likely
scenario. Just got to add the bean counters into that equation.

I'm
still betting 18 at the very best.
To be fair, both Boeing and the army are more than aware that this is all dependent on the beancounters, and both acknowledge that the UK will not be getting 67 new AH-64Es.

18 sounds about right to me also.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 13:59
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UK maybe procuring AH-64E.

Peter.
As ES has already highlighted STOVL was not under debate. You still need a runway for that. Might I politely suggest you RTFQ?!
Just banter you understand.
BV
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 18:14
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Vendee -Not sure where you get your information on the Harriers being 'clapped out' ! A lot of the airframes had far fewer hours on them them than the Tornado fleet and in many ways were superior in terms of reliability and future potential.

Regards the AH-64 Block III -this has always been a racing certainty . The vast majority of 'D' operators will update to the 'E' -whether with new build or reworked 'D's. Some of the desired mods are the engine gearbox improvements and modifications to the mrg and improved avionics.

The airframes themselves can go straight into the programme -there is no need for new aircraft . Indeed many 'D's are ex 'A's that are gutted and reworked .
Its nothing new and is very well conceived.
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Old 21st Mar 2014, 22:56
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Vendee -Not sure where you get your information on the Harriers being 'clapped out' ! A lot of the airframes had far fewer hours on them them than the Tornado fleet and in many ways were superior in terms of reliability and future potential.
I didn't mention Tornado because its like comparing one clapped out airframe to another. I know that some Harriers had much less hours on them than your average Tornado, mainly because they were much newer but I'm sure you know that airframe hours don't tell the whole story. I would imagine that the Harriers had a higher number of cycles.

I haven't had anything to do with Harrier since the GR3 but a colleague told me a couple of years ago that the airframes were very tired. I'm not saying that scrapping the Harrier was the correct decision though. It probably had more life in it than the Tornado.
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