Will anybody ever become an ace again?
Will anybody ever become an ace again?
Pub discussion tonight after reading an obituary in the Telegraph - will anyone make ace again in our new battlespheres (or whatever the buzzword of the day is?) or are the days of air to air combat like we dreamed of when we joined numbered....
(but I got chopped at Valley so it didn't affect me, my main combat was in Seventh Heaven!)
(but I got chopped at Valley so it didn't affect me, my main combat was in Seventh Heaven!)
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Will anybody ever become an ace again?
Depends how you count it. 5 kills=ace. Some air forces considered strafing a plane on the ground as a kill. Some air gunners would have racked up enough partials/probables to count as aces. Does a BVR missile kill count towards it or must it be guns? So many variables!
I think there's a fair chance this list will get longer....
List of Israeli flying aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not forgetting this quite talented chap...doubtless he has some capable colleagues that survive him...
Jalil Zandi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of Israeli flying aces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not forgetting this quite talented chap...doubtless he has some capable colleagues that survive him...
Jalil Zandi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
N2erk,
Perhaps he flew with assorted RIOs? Nobody disputes that Chuck Debellevue was the highest scoring US 'ace' of the SE Asia war - 6 - and that he was a WSO. Indeed, only 2 pilots appear in the US Ace category - 'Duke' Cunningham and Steve Ritchie - the others are all WSO/RIOs.
Of course, the NVAF had several more pilot aces......
There are plenty of large air forces out there where it's not inconceivable a Gen4/4.5/5 pilot could become 'ace in a day' in a single engagement given the potential overmatch.
Perhaps he flew with assorted RIOs? Nobody disputes that Chuck Debellevue was the highest scoring US 'ace' of the SE Asia war - 6 - and that he was a WSO. Indeed, only 2 pilots appear in the US Ace category - 'Duke' Cunningham and Steve Ritchie - the others are all WSO/RIOs.
Of course, the NVAF had several more pilot aces......
There are plenty of large air forces out there where it's not inconceivable a Gen4/4.5/5 pilot could become 'ace in a day' in a single engagement given the potential overmatch.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
But as Dash says, so many variables. Does shooting turkeys count? Bounce a 4-ship of helos or AT and you only need one more?
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Select Star and Combat Ready Select
Pontious et al:
These are terms I remember from the Ladybird 'V Bombers' book when I was a kid. Combat ready I get- was once myself. But I'm sure I remember the idea of, 'Select Star' status among crews.
Wassat all about?
My memories of how the service cares for its people lead to my immediate assumption is that it means, "Congratulations Golf, you have earned the right to die first!" Is that close?
CG
These are terms I remember from the Ladybird 'V Bombers' book when I was a kid. Combat ready I get- was once myself. But I'm sure I remember the idea of, 'Select Star' status among crews.
Wassat all about?
My memories of how the service cares for its people lead to my immediate assumption is that it means, "Congratulations Golf, you have earned the right to die first!" Is that close?
CG
Last edited by charliegolf; 6th Feb 2014 at 14:04. Reason: This was meant to be a new thread, but I stuffed it up- disregard!
The next ace will be the controller of the drone that destroys five or more other drones.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TH, I was joking. Hare and hounds.
One of the navs on my bombing course had been on night fighters (they tended not to fly very much at night) used to tell of the H&H exercises when it was nigh impossible to nail the helo.
A bit like when we were in a Vulcan and nailed by an F4E. Haul off, straight pass and treat it like a ground attack before they realised you were there. Once you were spotted it was game over.
One of the navs on my bombing course had been on night fighters (they tended not to fly very much at night) used to tell of the H&H exercises when it was nigh impossible to nail the helo.
A bit like when we were in a Vulcan and nailed by an F4E. Haul off, straight pass and treat it like a ground attack before they realised you were there. Once you were spotted it was game over.
"Once you were spotted it was game over"
Maybe for a V-bomber, but not for the RW unless the RW loses, or indeed never gets Tally. 1v1 post-Tally it was very rare to lose; 1v2 a harder evolution but requiring good comms and understanding between the FJ to co-ord effectively. A few seconds out of synch and the RW can switch and defend effectively 1v1 for a time.
Most 'kills' I've been on the wrong end of were unseen...plus ca change since Boelcke. A well flown, well trained, RWR equipped helo & crew is a hard target to find, track and kill.
Maybe for a V-bomber, but not for the RW unless the RW loses, or indeed never gets Tally. 1v1 post-Tally it was very rare to lose; 1v2 a harder evolution but requiring good comms and understanding between the FJ to co-ord effectively. A few seconds out of synch and the RW can switch and defend effectively 1v1 for a time.
Most 'kills' I've been on the wrong end of were unseen...plus ca change since Boelcke. A well flown, well trained, RWR equipped helo & crew is a hard target to find, track and kill.
I will settle for Peace....and skip the need for all this to happen.
I will settle for Peace....and skip the need for all this to happen.
Perhaps if all wars were left to happen in digital on a screen and let people just get on with living.