Will anybody ever become an ace again?
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"Bounce a 4-ship of helos"
The one that always made me laugh was the crew of the F-15 during the Gulf war who got that Iraq Helicopter with a LGB while it was flying.
The one that always made me laugh was the crew of the F-15 during the Gulf war who got that Iraq Helicopter with a LGB while it was flying.
Yep - and they got a Blackhawk too.......
The F15s were cued by AWACS and from the height they were at the LGB outranged the AIM9 - plus acquiring the Hind with the Mx was tricky due to other environmental factors.
Don't forget the Hip shot down, gunned, by a pair of A10s.
Basically non-RWR fitted cabs, with poor SA and little appropriate trg splashed by 3rd party cued systems. Not representative of all operators around the world. The Israeli score over Lebanon in 1982 (82-0) suggests that FJs are not immune to being crushed by such technical and TTP overmatch....
The F15s were cued by AWACS and from the height they were at the LGB outranged the AIM9 - plus acquiring the Hind with the Mx was tricky due to other environmental factors.
Don't forget the Hip shot down, gunned, by a pair of A10s.
Basically non-RWR fitted cabs, with poor SA and little appropriate trg splashed by 3rd party cued systems. Not representative of all operators around the world. The Israeli score over Lebanon in 1982 (82-0) suggests that FJs are not immune to being crushed by such technical and TTP overmatch....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Evaluator, when I said 'once you were spotted' I meant you, the target, were spotted and implied that you did not counter detect.
Whilst on LGB attacks, don't forget the Bucc and the Cub though while it was moving it was still on the ground.
Whilst on LGB attacks, don't forget the Bucc and the Cub though while it was moving it was still on the ground.
I think there will be Aces again - but they are most likely to be R/C jockeys rather than plane drivers.
Why? Because they're the platforms that're being promoted most and are also most newsworthy...the sci-fi and gaming era's return.
Why? Because they're the platforms that're being promoted most and are also most newsworthy...the sci-fi and gaming era's return.
Eval,
I agree that playing by conventional rules a well operated helo is very difficult to kill. However it would be interesting to see the effect of a fighter not even bothering with guns/missiles and going over the top at 100ft and M1.lots...
I agree that playing by conventional rules a well operated helo is very difficult to kill. However it would be interesting to see the effect of a fighter not even bothering with guns/missiles and going over the top at 100ft and M1.lots...
Flap 62,
Agreed...but you've still got to find me!! There's been many a sortie when I've had to talk-on the FJ to get the merge I needed for instruction. I've even had to do this against AWACS controlled AI fighters, not just Harriers, Hawks and AJs. That's with me playing peacetime rules (normally 100', lights and squawk on...). Hardest fight? SHar - though Typhoon isn't far behind. Easiest? Jag! Most fun? GR7/9.....though if I'd ever fought a Tucano I'd imagine that would be quite fun too.....
Unseen foes will kill you - doesn't matter what you're flying.
As with all things though there are so many variables; terrain, weather, currency, TTPs etc etc.....
Agreed...but you've still got to find me!! There's been many a sortie when I've had to talk-on the FJ to get the merge I needed for instruction. I've even had to do this against AWACS controlled AI fighters, not just Harriers, Hawks and AJs. That's with me playing peacetime rules (normally 100', lights and squawk on...). Hardest fight? SHar - though Typhoon isn't far behind. Easiest? Jag! Most fun? GR7/9.....though if I'd ever fought a Tucano I'd imagine that would be quite fun too.....
Unseen foes will kill you - doesn't matter what you're flying.
As with all things though there are so many variables; terrain, weather, currency, TTPs etc etc.....
If the Helicopter sees you and you try your Mach 1+ run.....I would have to assume your turn radius is somewhat larger than that of the helicopter at any speed.
Hard to harm something you cannot get close to and by combining your speed and that of the 7.62 pellets merging with you....it would get awfully busy for the last few seconds of your Pass.
Hard to harm something you cannot get close to and by combining your speed and that of the 7.62 pellets merging with you....it would get awfully busy for the last few seconds of your Pass.
Not quite SASless,
From the visual pickup by helo, communication in the cab and then reactionary movement will create very little angular displacement as viewed by the FJ. The lack of helo velocity and physics takes care of that. It therefore doesn't need a huge turn by the FJ to still get close to the helo and it doesn't need to directly overfly, just get quite close. The shock wave might just do the rest.
From the visual pickup by helo, communication in the cab and then reactionary movement will create very little angular displacement as viewed by the FJ. The lack of helo velocity and physics takes care of that. It therefore doesn't need a huge turn by the FJ to still get close to the helo and it doesn't need to directly overfly, just get quite close. The shock wave might just do the rest.
Join Date: Sep 2012
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If the Helicopter sees you
Back on thread, entirely plausible to see another Ace. No reason why not.
Hmm. My first helo kill was a Puma with vortices at 20ft and 450kts. Second (109 gunship) was 30mm (third pass!!) and third was on the ground so didn't count. Busy 5 minutes though.
Swing the lamp.
Swing the lamp.
Mogwi,
Respect fella - I've seen the results of your handiwork myself.
Similar circumstances to the Iraqi cabs - poor kit, poor TTPs and poor SA....and damn fine shooting....
Respect fella - I've seen the results of your handiwork myself.
Similar circumstances to the Iraqi cabs - poor kit, poor TTPs and poor SA....and damn fine shooting....
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Evalu8ter,
Oh, quite agree in principle. That said, many modern radars redefine that word. You'd need a pretty pimped out cab to shake off some of the weapon systems nowadays IMHO.
Oh, quite agree in principle. That said, many modern radars redefine that word. You'd need a pretty pimped out cab to shake off some of the weapon systems nowadays IMHO.
MSOCS,
Yep - but I've shaken off Captor, APG-63, AI24 and Blue Vixen inter alia. The first was by far the hardest....but I've spent a whole hour in the Coldstream against 2x Typhoon and had to talk them on every pass.....
Again, it's down to so many external factors. We should continue this over a beer!
Yep - but I've shaken off Captor, APG-63, AI24 and Blue Vixen inter alia. The first was by far the hardest....but I've spent a whole hour in the Coldstream against 2x Typhoon and had to talk them on every pass.....
Again, it's down to so many external factors. We should continue this over a beer!
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Don't think so
From Aviation Forum
"There were 17 x RAF pilot's that competed exchange tours with USAF F-86 units during the Korean War. Five of these accounted for 6 MiG's, two of them by one pilot, Graham Hulse, who was later KIA, as was another RAF pilot.
There were also, 32 RAF pilots that competed exchange combat tours with 77 Sqn RAAF flying Meteor F.8's."
From Aviation Forum
"There were 17 x RAF pilot's that competed exchange tours with USAF F-86 units during the Korean War. Five of these accounted for 6 MiG's, two of them by one pilot, Graham Hulse, who was later KIA, as was another RAF pilot.
There were also, 32 RAF pilots that competed exchange combat tours with 77 Sqn RAAF flying Meteor F.8's."
