US Pave Hawk down
Yes. I think that this business about in transit to Holbeach is fair enough. It's probably only about 15-20 minutes flying time away and I expect that they were performing a low level detail prior to transit. I don't see anything sinister in this.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
Is that direction of flight confirmed?
I have no idea but suspect that the helicopters would fly west, then on reaching The Wash fly south-west down The Wash to Holbeach (Taking great care not to disturb H.M. QE11. watching telly at Sandringham).
The fact that the helicopter was flying east when the accident happened is not significant.
The fact that the helicopter was flying east when the accident happened is not significant.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
OUAQUKGF Ops
I have no idea but suspect that the helicopters would fly west, then on reaching The Wash fly south-west down The Wash to Holbeach (Taking great care not to disturb H.M. QE11. watching telly at Sandringham).
The fact that the helicopter was flying east when the accident happened is not significant.
I have no idea but suspect that the helicopters would fly west, then on reaching The Wash fly south-west down The Wash to Holbeach (Taking great care not to disturb H.M. QE11. watching telly at Sandringham).
The fact that the helicopter was flying east when the accident happened is not significant.
Anyway, so it was flying East when it crashed, can you provide a link to that info?
Dear Sid,
In answer to your questions: With regard to whether they would fly over land or sea to transit from Cley to Holbeach I would suspect that it would be a bit of both but I am just an ordinary bloke, not a pilot so don't ask me!
With regard to the direction in which the wreckage faces if one takes it that what appears to be the largest piece is at the head of the debris trail then the helicopter would have been flying East or if you want to split hairs slightly East-South-East. Again I have speculated that the helicopter was already on this course having made a turn which resulted in this catastrophic event but it is quite possible that it ended up crashing in this direction as a result of something else that happened to it. Equally it could already have been established on this course flying down the edge of the marsh by the shingle bank towards Weybourne.
Low flying by American and British Military aircraft in Norfolk is not uncommon.
Further The Fighter Wing at Lakeheath of which these choppers are part has a large practice area over the sea just north of Cromer which is also used by RAF Tornados and Typhoons.
Cheers Tom.
In answer to your questions: With regard to whether they would fly over land or sea to transit from Cley to Holbeach I would suspect that it would be a bit of both but I am just an ordinary bloke, not a pilot so don't ask me!
With regard to the direction in which the wreckage faces if one takes it that what appears to be the largest piece is at the head of the debris trail then the helicopter would have been flying East or if you want to split hairs slightly East-South-East. Again I have speculated that the helicopter was already on this course having made a turn which resulted in this catastrophic event but it is quite possible that it ended up crashing in this direction as a result of something else that happened to it. Equally it could already have been established on this course flying down the edge of the marsh by the shingle bank towards Weybourne.
Low flying by American and British Military aircraft in Norfolk is not uncommon.
Further The Fighter Wing at Lakeheath of which these choppers are part has a large practice area over the sea just north of Cromer which is also used by RAF Tornados and Typhoons.
Cheers Tom.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 12th Jan 2014 at 17:30. Reason: Various changes
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
OO, you said, "The fact that the helicopter was flying east when the accident happened ...."
Your fact is based on 'what appears'
Why is the heaviest piece at the head of the debris trail?
Your fact is based on 'what appears'
Why is the heaviest piece at the head of the debris trail?
Sid,
You must take my postings as pure speculation.
As yet there have been no broadcast or published eye-witness accounts of the accident if indeed any exist.
Therefore I will adopt a sensible attitude and like everybody else wait for the outcome of the investigation.
You must take my postings as pure speculation.
As yet there have been no broadcast or published eye-witness accounts of the accident if indeed any exist.
Therefore I will adopt a sensible attitude and like everybody else wait for the outcome of the investigation.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
One environmentalist issue was their route to feet wet. At one point we had an on site brief to make it clear where the over night roosts were and that they should ensure a coast crossing at right angles.
The representative from Lakenheath or Mildenhall was an RAF Wg Cdr, ex-kipper fleet (Al B).
You can see the danger area and bird haz areas here:
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pdf/eg_enr_6_5_1_1_en.pdf
Yet again, if they were approaching land from the sea (one comment) how would you account for witnesses on land hearing anything?
*nothing said above should be taken to imply that that was true of the crash event.
The representative from Lakenheath or Mildenhall was an RAF Wg Cdr, ex-kipper fleet (Al B).
You can see the danger area and bird haz areas here:
http://www.mantma.co.uk/pdf/eg_enr_6_5_1_1_en.pdf
Yet again, if they were approaching land from the sea (one comment) how would you account for witnesses on land hearing anything?
*nothing said above should be taken to imply that that was true of the crash event.
Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 13th Jan 2014 at 07:12.
Purveyor of Egg Liqueur to Lucifer
I am not sure that they use Holbeach.
BBC News - Helicopter crash
This is my final speculative contribution which I have corrected and updated since posting.
A) Witnesses living in Cley and Salthouse heard and saw two low-flying helicopters on the night in question.
B) Several sightings were of a single helicopter. This helicopter was either the subject helicopter or possibly the second helicopter searching for the downed helicopter. In one interview Bernard Bishop remarked that he saw the lights of a helicopter which at one stage hovered leaving me to think that this was the search aircraft.
C)No witnesses apart from one (So far I know) stated that they saw the helicopter crash and again (as far as I know) nobody apart from one person has stated that they heard any sounds of impact.
D) The helicopter or helicopters had probably at some stage been flying over the sea because initially three life-boats were called out. I believe they were stood down when the wreckage was located.
E) The Police Superintendent when briefing the press stated that there were two helicopters in the area at the time of the crash.
I've read in The Daily Telegraph that a witness in Cley saw two helicopters carrying out low level manoeuvres.
To quote him: "They were flying extremely low considering it was night. They do exercises around here. Later I heard there had been an accident".
Also in the Daily Telegraph that a witness in Cley claimed that he saw the helicopter come down inasmuch that he witnessed a helicopter which he thought had landed on the beach "ditching" in the marsh. To quote:
"I saw it go down. At first I thought it had landed on the beach but then realised it had ditched in the marsh. I actually saw it go down but I did not see it ditch. It went down in the nature reserve." This witness also stated elsewhere that he heard the impact.
I'm signing off now and believe me I appreciate these crews who operate often dangerous missions in their bid to save lives.
A) Witnesses living in Cley and Salthouse heard and saw two low-flying helicopters on the night in question.
B) Several sightings were of a single helicopter. This helicopter was either the subject helicopter or possibly the second helicopter searching for the downed helicopter. In one interview Bernard Bishop remarked that he saw the lights of a helicopter which at one stage hovered leaving me to think that this was the search aircraft.
C)No witnesses apart from one (So far I know) stated that they saw the helicopter crash and again (as far as I know) nobody apart from one person has stated that they heard any sounds of impact.
D) The helicopter or helicopters had probably at some stage been flying over the sea because initially three life-boats were called out. I believe they were stood down when the wreckage was located.
E) The Police Superintendent when briefing the press stated that there were two helicopters in the area at the time of the crash.
I've read in The Daily Telegraph that a witness in Cley saw two helicopters carrying out low level manoeuvres.
To quote him: "They were flying extremely low considering it was night. They do exercises around here. Later I heard there had been an accident".
Also in the Daily Telegraph that a witness in Cley claimed that he saw the helicopter come down inasmuch that he witnessed a helicopter which he thought had landed on the beach "ditching" in the marsh. To quote:
"I saw it go down. At first I thought it had landed on the beach but then realised it had ditched in the marsh. I actually saw it go down but I did not see it ditch. It went down in the nature reserve." This witness also stated elsewhere that he heard the impact.
I'm signing off now and believe me I appreciate these crews who operate often dangerous missions in their bid to save lives.
Last edited by OUAQUKGF Ops; 15th Jan 2014 at 08:15. Reason: Additional Information
