Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Aircrew Sustainability

Wikiposts
Search
Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Aircrew Sustainability

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 19th Dec 2013, 10:29
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 657
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
Aircrew Sustainability

Taken from the latest RAF Personnel Bulletin:

We have insufficient Regular aircrew, especially pilots, to fill all of the flying and flying-related ground posts; moreover, this manning gap will endure over the next decade unless remedial action is taken. To mitigate this issue we are undertaking an Aircrew Sustainability Review which will be conducted in 3 discrete phases.

Phase one, to bound the issue, has already been completed with the reporting of recommendations to the AFBSC in December 13. We have agreed to delete or reapportion around 400 aircrew-annotated posts over a 6-year period to either non-regular aircrew or other branches, and to introduce the requirement for all aircrew posts to be prioritised in their order of importance to remain as aircrew annotated. This prioritisation has the added benefit of ensuring that the number of aircrew posts filled by Regular aircrew in the future will be directly related to the prevailing Regular strength.

Work to establish the prioritised list and identify which posts should be deleted or reapportioned (Phase 2) is at a very early stage and is being taken forward by the Manpower Requirements team. This phase will involve discussion with the key stakeholders (including the capability owners) and any recommendations challenged through red teaming. This work will consider, amongst other things, the requirement for the majority of operationally focussed appointments to be filled by Regular aircrew and the contribution that the other Services should make to filling aircrew-annotated staff appointments.

In the final stage of this work we will look to model the impact on aircrew strength of the NEM, the new pension scheme (AFPS15),MFTS, and other changes, such as longer tour lengths, and assess if and what type of retention incentives may be required to improve aircrew return of service.
400 aircrew annotated posts seems like a huge number to soak up by other branches. I can see FTRS aircrew taking over at UAS's etc but are we going to replace all those in HQ staff appointments with adminers??
Party Animal is online now  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 10:43
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Sounds to me that even more aircrew will be needed for Manpower Review, Red Teams and any other HR bullsh!t they come up with in the meantime.

In any case, I would suspect the Red Team interactions would consist of
Red: "Why don't you...?"
RAF: "There's no budget for that. It's not policy. (Insert your favourite management excuse here)."
repeat ad infinitum

May I suggest what the Chivenor crowd came up with for the Robson Report (twenty years ago review of same problem)
They just asked for great wads of cash, on the basis that significant changes anywhere else were nigh on impossible given the bureaucracy, so just make sure the bucket of cash is heavier than the bucket of sh!t.
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 10:44
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Somewhere flat
Age: 68
Posts: 5,565
Likes: 0
Received 45 Likes on 30 Posts
An awful lot of "Uncles" are needed!
Wensleydale is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 11:31
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Age: 60
Posts: 2,051
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 6 Posts
Who wrote that management tosh?

Stakeholders, capability owners and WTF is red teaming????

Speak in plain English you morons.
jayteeto is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 11:33
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Aah, the Robson Report - best bloke for the job, great report, but was it ever going to be implemented......no, never.
Wander00 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 13:56
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: England
Posts: 1,930
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
I'm sorry but this is a complete crock of sh**e. Allowing the reapportionment of 400 aircrew annotated posts will only serve to further undermine the aircrew branch. There has to be a very good reason why any number of those posts have been aircrew annotated in the past; that usually comes down to a necessary skill set, level of specialist knowledge and intuitive understanding of certain issues. Those skills do not come from inventing a new branch or just removing the aircrew annotation!

I am afraid that this all links to the fact that the RAF (and RN and shortly the British Army) are already too small to do what we are being asked to do. As General Nick said at RUSI last night:

...the dawning reality is that, even if we maintain the non-equipment budget in real terms, rising manpower costs raise the prospect of further manpower and activity cuts. Unattended our current course leads to a strategically incoherent force structure: exquisite equipment, but insufficient resources to man that equipment or train on it. ... We are not there yet; but across Defence I would identify the Royal Navy as being perilously close to its critical mass in manpower terms
The only thing I would change is the ending, which really should have read: "I would identify the RN and RAF as being beyond its critical mass in monpower terms". This 400 reannotation is proof positive that [elements of] the RAF are already beyond critical mass!!


Party Animal

I can see FTRS aircrew taking over at UASs
Hate to tell you this, but of the 2 or 3 pilots on each UAS, all bar the Boss will be FTRS already. All the AEF flt cdrs are FTRS and quite a few of the EFT QFIs are FTRS. I've lost track of where we stand with the Tucano, Hawk, King Air and DHFS sqns, but there was quite a smattering of FTRS (or civilian) pilots in there already; this is only going to get worse under MFTS.

PS. Where did you find the quote from? I don't remember having seen a Manning Bulletin in years

Last edited by Roland Pulfrew; 19th Dec 2013 at 14:19. Reason: To add the PS.
Roland Pulfrew is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 14:26
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Stamford
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
PS. Where did you find the quote from? I don't remember having seen a Manning Bulletin in years
RAF intranet homepage. Second link down in Latest Information (under CAS Christmas Message)
Stuff is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 14:36
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: England
Posts: 1,930
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
RAF intranet homepage. Second link down in Latest Information (under CAS Christmas Message)
Oooh! Glossy!!

Thanks Stuff, you live and learn.
Roland Pulfrew is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 14:54
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 657
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
RP,

Agree with you completely. If:

Hate to tell you this, but of the 2 or 3 pilots on each UAS, all bar the Boss will be FTRS already
is already the case, then that just makes things worse!

P.S. We missed you yesterday at the M.
Party Animal is online now  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:01
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Roman Empire
Posts: 2,452
Received 72 Likes on 33 Posts
How long ago did we make over 400 aircrew redundant? About 3 years wasn't it!
Biggus is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:04
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Biggus - careful, just saw big black cars coming your way. (Anyone thought of rewriting "The Emperor's New clothes"?)
Wander00 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:26
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I am related to a man who was the chief aircrew poster about 30 years ago. He reckoned the aircrew requirement followed a 7 year cycle and was almost always 180 degrees out with aircrew numbers, and that this had been the case since 1918.
Plus ca change!
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:38
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canada
Age: 77
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I don't usually respond to posts on current issues, or political stuff, but I have to ask- what does " to bound the issue, ",or 'red-teaming' mean- paradigm shift, stakeholder, think-outside-the-box, collegial I've got but... Thinks: maybe they meant 'red herring' oh, and if they're short of "uncles", would they consider 'grampas' ??
N2erk is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:49
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Fox3 - certainly applied in the 60s, 70s, 80s...............................Why can the RAF not "do" manpower planning!
Wander00 is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 16:50
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Roman Empire
Posts: 2,452
Received 72 Likes on 33 Posts
N2erk


Red team - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Biggus is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 17:14
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Canada
Age: 77
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Biggus- thx. i guess its an organizational version of playing the devil's advocate, or being 'the mystery shopper' in retail...
seriously tho thx.
N2erk is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 17:24
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,895
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Wander00 - my relative reckoned it was a consequence of the time in post of Defence Ministers and VSOs. Neither of these has changed much since 1918. By the time a programme gets established, in comes someone else with different priorities - and the expense is always a factor.
Fox3WheresMyBanana is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 20:35
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 2,164
Received 47 Likes on 23 Posts
What a mess.

Nice to see that they have identified the true issues:

...NEM, the new pension scheme (AFPS15),MFTS, and other changes, such as longer tour lengths, and assess if and what type of retention incentives may be required to improve aircrew return of service
But have consigned these to:

...the final stage of this work
When bleeding to death the application of direct or indirect pressure to the wound should be the first thing you do, not the last…
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 19th Dec 2013, 21:07
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Bury St. Edmunds
Age: 64
Posts: 539
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
TRAIN CRASH COMING.......

Sadly, all I see round the corner (if it's not happening already) is an ALMIGHTY train crash ahead.......

There used to be a balance between operations (okay when there wasn't a war being fought, the front line), training (flying) and career progression (ground tours).

There was also a critical mass. This is essential to prevent burn-out of your front line, rotation between roles and to allow for rapid surges. eg. QFI's being recalled to ops as happened in OP CORPORATE.

Now with increasing use of civilian's/ex-military pilots being employed at UAS, BFT, MTFS, and now the civilianisation of SAR we are dining in the last chance saloon. With the RAF, FAA and AAC shrinking where will the next generation of current QFI's etc. employed by the likes of SERCO & BABCOCK come from? With the airlines looking to recruit new pilots will there be any ex-service pilots interested or young enough to fill the vacancies that will start to appear when the current ex-service aircrew retire?

The training pipeline gets turned off all too easily to save money in the short term but is very difficult to turn on again. As we will no doubt find out only at considerable cost.

MB
Madbob is offline  
Old 20th Dec 2013, 04:55
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hmmm!

As usual the wheel comes full circle and I bet if you pull out the PA'd file establishing the Ops Support bunch you will read it was because we didn't have enough aircrew to fill all the slots required and we needed to prioritise etc etc

Ca plus ca change ca plus ca mem chose (with apologies to Mr Forster my French teacher)

Bet you wish you didn't get rid of all those Navs in the redundancies eh?
Dan Winterroll is offline  


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.