Is RAF training all it's cracked up to be...?
The RCAF has around a 90/40/30/10 % pass rate.
90 % who walk in the door of the recruit centre and say "I want to be a pilot" get washed out right away.
40 % who make the initial cut don't actually finish recruit training
30 % who show up on the flight line get cut on the initial flying phase
10 % get cut in the next phases and don't get their wings.
90 % who walk in the door of the recruit centre and say "I want to be a pilot" get washed out right away.
40 % who make the initial cut don't actually finish recruit training
30 % who show up on the flight line get cut on the initial flying phase
10 % get cut in the next phases and don't get their wings.
Gentleman Aviator
do the people that don't end up FJ count as failure?
..... best you ask CAS, or AMP, or the Air Sec, or the Comdt Cranwell, or AOC 2 Gp, or AOC 22 Gp, or AOC 22 Gp (Desig) .... etc etc etc
The RCAF has around a 90/40/30/10 % pass rate.
90 % who walk in the door of the recruit centre and say "I want to be a pilot" get washed out right away.
40 % who make the initial cut don't actually finish recruit training
30 % who show up on the flight line get cut on the initial flying phase
10 % get cut in the next phases and don't get their wings.
90 % who walk in the door of the recruit centre and say "I want to be a pilot" get washed out right away.
40 % who make the initial cut don't actually finish recruit training
30 % who show up on the flight line get cut on the initial flying phase
10 % get cut in the next phases and don't get their wings.
Drift: I once had a letter published in Air Clues having a dig at a VSO who had penned an article about aircrew, but actually meant pilots. It was sent on to me after I left!
CG
On the other hand, if you were talking FC training back in the early 70s - when everyone was a controller and before they split the branch and introduced Systems Officers etc - the percentage is about right.
They never seemed to be able to find an aptitude test that gave any kind of accurate forecast of who'd pass or fail.
They never seemed to be able to find an aptitude test that gave any kind of accurate forecast of who'd pass or fail.
Some rather suspect stats said the best chance of passing were if you were a lager-drinking, left-handed, rugby-playing catholic!
OC School of Fighter Control was quoted as saying "give me the candidates in the bar for a night and I'll tell you if they will pass FC training" or words to that effect.
Originally Posted by clicker
So in today air force which is much much smaller than 1970 their can afford to pick the top few per cent.
Does anyone have any figures on through-training chop-rates? I certainly don't recall any UK students failing EFT but don't know how successful they are beyond that.
Anecdotally I can say that I don't think I would have made it through today.
And on my BFT Course at Fenton, 33 started, 6 went Fast Jet, all 6 made it to the front line.
Radar101 - funny that - I STR saying to Aunty Joan once had she noticed how many FCs were left handed. Something to do with left and right side of brain and spacial awareness.
Also when a flt cdr at IOT suggested to Booby Robson (when they were looking for savings) that best bet was to remember that wives used to predict which of their husband's studes would pass IOT after they met them at the first night "meet and creep". Apparently the wives' predictions were astonishingly accurate, so I suggested a one week course. arrive Sunday, "meet and creep" Monday, "Black Monday" to become "Black Tuesday" on the basis of wives' predictions, and graduation on Friday. Simples.
Also when a flt cdr at IOT suggested to Booby Robson (when they were looking for savings) that best bet was to remember that wives used to predict which of their husband's studes would pass IOT after they met them at the first night "meet and creep". Apparently the wives' predictions were astonishingly accurate, so I suggested a one week course. arrive Sunday, "meet and creep" Monday, "Black Monday" to become "Black Tuesday" on the basis of wives' predictions, and graduation on Friday. Simples.
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At a time when we had a huge flying training system, 4 FTSs for a start, there were a few really astute basic QFIs who could spot potential in students who were struggling. A colleague of mine was given something close to 20 hours to get solo in the Piston Provost and went on to become Commandant ETPS.
Expanding a little to ground training, whilst acknowledging the systems investment in the Airman, there were fairly harsh terms.
Shock to someone used to Civilian examination systems, there were no grades. You either passed >60% or you failed. Fail twice and depending on your performance thus far get re-coursed or look for another job. Fail again, look for another job, or in the event of a further trainee RTU.
I spent 18 months of trade training suffering disturbed sleep and stress with the fear of failure. I never came anywhere near the chop, but god only knows how those that walked the tightrope felt.
Perhaps I should claim compensation.
Shock to someone used to Civilian examination systems, there were no grades. You either passed >60% or you failed. Fail twice and depending on your performance thus far get re-coursed or look for another job. Fail again, look for another job, or in the event of a further trainee RTU.
I spent 18 months of trade training suffering disturbed sleep and stress with the fear of failure. I never came anywhere near the chop, but god only knows how those that walked the tightrope felt.
Perhaps I should claim compensation.
training & examination that kills the trainee is by definition somewhat non-optimum
"Death is nature's way of telling you that you've failed SAS selection" - Attributed to John 'Lofty' Wiseman....
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Quality Training
Flying training was relatively easy compared to the Military Chefs Course.....
Reminded me of an evening meal at Cranwell in the 70s where the menu described the fish of the day as "Fillet of Sole Manure". In fairness, it was absolutely excellent fish, so no reflection on the chef - the menus were typed, using one finger but not necessarily any spelling brain cells, by the duty Hall Porter. A great opportunity to send a note home to Mum with a menu enclosed saying that training was proceeding as planned but the food was sh1t!
Out of interest, and as a result of that memory tweak, I checked my IOT photo - I think 18 of us started training as pilots - 8 got through Cranwell (nothing other than fast jet slots at the time), 3 were subsequently chopped at Valley, of whom one got a helo slot (which he'd wanted from day 1 anyway). So 33.3% of those who started made it to the front line. I can't remember anyone who wasn't grateful for the removal of the pressure after the decision to suspend them had been made. Hard work, but generally fair, although you couldn't help feeling sorry for the guy who was chopped the day before he was due to get his wings - it was too late to stop his name appearing in the newspapers, but he didn't graduate with the rest of us.
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Eton (Eaten) Mess
Thanks Ricardian, I know what it is and I'm sure that's what Mrs would have been given had she ordered it - the (very) mild amusement was in how it was written on the menu, but thanks for helping out those who've never heard of the stuff.
RAF training still pretty damned good!
RAF training still pretty damned good!