Females can not march like men....
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Looking at that pic SASless it looks like one of them forgot to remove her love balls before setting off..
pots and kettles. 
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Would it be fair to say that these females have undone equality within the military in a few short steps? Females have been campaigning that they wanted to be treated equally for equal pay but this case seems that they have confirmed they are different and should be treated as such. Is it a height issue or a gender issue? If its the latter, surely we should just put all the females back in the office out of harms way and reduce their pay accordingly?
"She said she had suffered four pelvic fractures and was medically discharged in 2008."
Not trying to be funny here but she was undergoing RAF training, not SF selection. If she falls apart after a bit of square bashing around an RAF establishment, I feel she was never ever going to be suited to a life in the military.
Sort of sets a precedence now. If it is a height issue, all those short arses (male) can bang a claim in?
"She said she had suffered four pelvic fractures and was medically discharged in 2008."
Not trying to be funny here but she was undergoing RAF training, not SF selection. If she falls apart after a bit of square bashing around an RAF establishment, I feel she was never ever going to be suited to a life in the military.
Sort of sets a precedence now. If it is a height issue, all those short arses (male) can bang a claim in?
I would hope you are not referring to ground crew with this comment but significantly further up the food chain!
If an extra 3" causes 4 pelvic fractures, then I'm afraid I'd want to ask about lifestyle up to that point. Rules are rules and Halton should have stuck to 27" but I'm old enough to think the general inactivity much of today's youth enjoy must have contributed.
Personally, I think Rabbie Burns got it right.....
"The carlin clew her wanton tail,
Her wanton tail sae ready,
"l learn'd a sang in Annandale,
Nine inch will please a lady."
General inactivity may be the only actual cause, but because some power-happy drill pig didn't stick to the rules (and some pretty poor medical care by the sounds of it), the MoD was unable to prove it was their inactivity, especially as it sounds like there is medical research on the recruits side.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
What surprises me is that there were rules and they knew about them.
We were taught all sorts of complete trivia in training but not IIRC, the length of a pace.
Now one of the things that may have led to my later back injury was the 100 yard carry. We were 'paired' up with one carrying the other at a stagger for 100 yards and then swapping and returning.
I was around 5 ft 9 in and 10 st and 18 years old. I was paired up with a mid-20s 12 st plus 6 ft 2 in. Apart from the standard difficulty I had great difficulty keeping him off the ground.
Do they still do that now?
We were taught all sorts of complete trivia in training but not IIRC, the length of a pace.
Now one of the things that may have led to my later back injury was the 100 yard carry. We were 'paired' up with one carrying the other at a stagger for 100 yards and then swapping and returning.
I was around 5 ft 9 in and 10 st and 18 years old. I was paired up with a mid-20s 12 st plus 6 ft 2 in. Apart from the standard difficulty I had great difficulty keeping him off the ground.
Do they still do that now?
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Army had it in the 90's.
I believe there is also something to do with heels as well.
There is also a difference if the girls were wearing old dimple boots and putties or combat highs.
Number 1 shoes apparently could give period pains type feelings after a couple of 4 hour sessions with some of the girls and others it didn't seem to affect at all.
I believe there is also something to do with heels as well.
There is also a difference if the girls were wearing old dimple boots and putties or combat highs.
Number 1 shoes apparently could give period pains type feelings after a couple of 4 hour sessions with some of the girls and others it didn't seem to affect at all.
Surely Jimlad at #7 has it bang to rights. The DIs decided to deviate from the published practices and try to force a male capability on incapable females ? That being the case, there's no surprise at the follow up compo case. Perhaps all in authority should consider the implications of their own vindictiveness in later years.
Smudge
Smudge
I'm beginning to see why the Army find the other two services so laughable. FFS, this is a war-fighting service we're talking about. PN, you had to carry a big bloke for 100M. The girls had to step out a bit. "There were rules". How much square bashing do you all think recruits actually do?
Sometimes I wonder how some here survived in the Air Force without having to run home to Mum so she could kiss it better.
Sometimes I wonder how some here survived in the Air Force without having to run home to Mum so she could kiss it better.
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Erm....
Hate to say this but the Daily Mail has misled you it would seem (shock horror, Daily Mail misleading? Surely not?)
The BBC Website has worded it slightly different to make it clear that BECAUSE of the claim the NEW policy on female recruits is 27 inch pacing. The DIs were not to blame and did not breach policy at that time.
BBC News - Female RAF recruits paid compensation for marching injuries
My opinion - the RAF Medics messed up but my belief is that the injuries were pre-existing (even if the women didnt know about it) and that military training has exaserbated, but not caused the problems.
In 9 years with 2 cadet forces and 3 Units, including being SNCO I/C for a Wing parade with roughly 500 cadets and staff on parade and training upwards of 100 cadets or staff to march from new, I have not once heard, or heard of, a single cadet or staff member (female or male) say that they have to stretch to reach a 30" pace.
If they couldnt manage it for 9 weeks then they would have had much bigger problems further down the line. And I certainly dont think they should have been entitled to loss of earnings - they couldnt hack phase 1, this isnt like they were phase 3 trade training but phase 1 BASIC training.
Yes its a shame that their injuries got so bad that they were discharged but the medics are at fault for that, not the RAF in my opinion (although I imagine that the RAF Halton medics see hundreds of recruits a year with 'pain caused by marching' which normally mysteriously goes away when told to carry on).
Hate to say this but the Daily Mail has misled you it would seem (shock horror, Daily Mail misleading? Surely not?)
The BBC Website has worded it slightly different to make it clear that BECAUSE of the claim the NEW policy on female recruits is 27 inch pacing. The DIs were not to blame and did not breach policy at that time.
BBC News - Female RAF recruits paid compensation for marching injuries
My opinion - the RAF Medics messed up but my belief is that the injuries were pre-existing (even if the women didnt know about it) and that military training has exaserbated, but not caused the problems.
In 9 years with 2 cadet forces and 3 Units, including being SNCO I/C for a Wing parade with roughly 500 cadets and staff on parade and training upwards of 100 cadets or staff to march from new, I have not once heard, or heard of, a single cadet or staff member (female or male) say that they have to stretch to reach a 30" pace.
If they couldnt manage it for 9 weeks then they would have had much bigger problems further down the line. And I certainly dont think they should have been entitled to loss of earnings - they couldnt hack phase 1, this isnt like they were phase 3 trade training but phase 1 BASIC training.
Yes its a shame that their injuries got so bad that they were discharged but the medics are at fault for that, not the RAF in my opinion (although I imagine that the RAF Halton medics see hundreds of recruits a year with 'pain caused by marching' which normally mysteriously goes away when told to carry on).
Last edited by Burnie5204; 24th Nov 2013 at 22:04.
The war was so unfair. I was expected to run to the shelter as fast as all the tall people. But they bombed us anyway and some of us didn't make it to the shelters in time.
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Indeed, the 'we arent frontline, we were going to be ATC' doesnt wash with me either. I know a Flt Lt ATCO who has had to fire his SA80 in anger whilst on deployment in Afghanistan.
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Good, I hope the by now probably ex WRAF that was at Halton when I did my fitters course is reading this..
She hobbled around for about three or more weeks on a injured leg that she had picked up during basic training weeks before, the med centre had told her it was a sprain and she had repeatedly gone back about it, that was UNTIL getting out of bed one morning 5 weeks later, the hairline fracture she actually had finally gave up the ghost.....
She hobbled around for about three or more weeks on a injured leg that she had picked up during basic training weeks before, the med centre had told her it was a sprain and she had repeatedly gone back about it, that was UNTIL getting out of bed one morning 5 weeks later, the hairline fracture she actually had finally gave up the ghost.....
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They have been paid based on the fact that their lives may be 5 years shorter as a result of suffering from Pelvic Stress Injuries (PSI). That is clearly not going to happen and is therefore ridiculous.
It is impossible to prove what caused the PSI and it certainly can't all be pinned on one person, one section or one practice. Perhaps the girls are all avid Pogo stick users in their spare time.
It may be to do with stride length, it may be to do with the hilly terrain at the camp, it may be to do with over pacing around camp to march quicker to meet tight deadlines during their days. I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that a key factor was a lack of preparation for an intense (albeit bland in comparison to historical courses) military training course. Whether that may be through poor nutrition or insufficient physical preparation, which is even harder to prove.
It is impossible to prove what caused the PSI and it certainly can't all be pinned on one person, one section or one practice. Perhaps the girls are all avid Pogo stick users in their spare time.
It may be to do with stride length, it may be to do with the hilly terrain at the camp, it may be to do with over pacing around camp to march quicker to meet tight deadlines during their days. I wouldn't be at all surprised to discover that a key factor was a lack of preparation for an intense (albeit bland in comparison to historical courses) military training course. Whether that may be through poor nutrition or insufficient physical preparation, which is even harder to prove.
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a) 'It wouldn't have happened in my time'
b) 'We were tougher then'
c) 'Pfft. Women in the Forces? Since when?'
d) 'My experience is XXX & XXX and that cannot possibly have happened!'
e) 'I'm outraged!'
f) 'WRAFS? They love it up 'em!'
This should save a lot of time for 75% of the posters in this thread. Just print this out and select a - f as your future answer for anything similar. If any of the less misogynistic or plain younger residents want to add to the list the tartan knee blankets might a little less ruffled in future outrages.
b) 'We were tougher then'
c) 'Pfft. Women in the Forces? Since when?'
d) 'My experience is XXX & XXX and that cannot possibly have happened!'
e) 'I'm outraged!'
f) 'WRAFS? They love it up 'em!'
This should save a lot of time for 75% of the posters in this thread. Just print this out and select a - f as your future answer for anything similar. If any of the less misogynistic or plain younger residents want to add to the list the tartan knee blankets might a little less ruffled in future outrages.
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Overstepping
Nice try CH! I do see your point od view that this appears to be another example of some taking advantage of a poorly organised military legal system and its yet another poor joke at the expense of our forces Whether these WRAF have a valid reason or not is not the issue, they have medical problems and these have to be addressed.
Prior to our "equality" in the forces the WRAF marched together and the RAF did the same, it was the preferred option and to be honest looked a lot better on a parade ground. In addition although there were obvously tall women overall this grouping made it easier to march and I never heard of any complaints on over stepping.
If the RAF has to spend time on solving this issue then deal with the cause rather than having to provide compensation.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel lets accept this issue, deal with the claims, adopt the tried and proven methods (dare I say old fashioned) to correct the problem before a band wagon comes rolling in.
Prior to our "equality" in the forces the WRAF marched together and the RAF did the same, it was the preferred option and to be honest looked a lot better on a parade ground. In addition although there were obvously tall women overall this grouping made it easier to march and I never heard of any complaints on over stepping.
If the RAF has to spend time on solving this issue then deal with the cause rather than having to provide compensation.
Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel lets accept this issue, deal with the claims, adopt the tried and proven methods (dare I say old fashioned) to correct the problem before a band wagon comes rolling in.