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Another drone down.....

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Another drone down.....

Old 18th Nov 2013, 00:52
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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But how was the C-17 spotted in the first place, to allow the operator to zoom in on it?

I'm genuinely curious as I have extensively flown DA42M with backseat operator and with the same FLIR as Reaper. I also have some experience as operator in the back. I would say that just about every time we have spotted a target, whether on the ground, in the air or at sea it is initially spotted by Mk1 eyeball of one of the onboard crew. The field of view and acuity of eyeballs is still way ahead of the sensors and video screens that I have flown with.
Trim

I think you'll find that DA42M uses the MX15? The Reaper uses MTS-B which is a far more capable sensor (another 7 inches of aperture for starters). Anyway, the MTS-B was slewed to the C-17's track showing on JTIDS/Link 16 - this system shows RADAR tracks of aircraft (with or without transponders) that are being tracked by AWACS or ground RADAR stations.

Let us know if DA42 is carrying MTS-B as that would be an interesting development.

LJ
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 08:16
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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Another drone down...

"...The Navy says an aerial target drone malfunctioned and struck a guided missile cruiser during training off Southern California ... two sailors were treated for minor burns after the ship was struck..."


Drone malfunctions, hits Navy ship during training
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 11:10
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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That story shows why there's a good reason for separating the words out a bit... an "aerial target drone" is not the same as something like a Reaper!
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 15:14
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That is why it is incorrect to use the word 'Drone' for RPAS/UAS such as Reaper or Watchkeeper. The etymology for the word 'Drone' lay with unmanned target towing aircraft; one of the first being the De Havilland Queen Bee. The aircraft used to fly at a fixed RPM flying up and down past the air-air artillery guns and it is believed that a visiting USN person coined the name 'Drone' during world war 2.

History and etymology lesson over - journos please note.

LJ

PS.

Drone is one of the oldest*official*designations*for*remotely*controlled aircraft in the American military lexicon. in 1935, when the chief of naval*operations* Adm. William Standley, visited Britain, he was given a demonstration of the Royal Navy’s new DH 82B Queen Bee remotely controlled aircraft that was used for anti-aircraft gunnery practice. On his return, Standley assigned an office, Cmdr. Delmer Fahrney at the Radion*Division*of the Naval Research Laboratory, to develop a*similar*system*for US Navy gunnery training. Fahrney adopted the name drone to refer to these aircraft in homage to the Queen Bee. Drone became the official US Navy designation for target drones for many decades.
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 17:28
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Let us know if DA42 is carrying MTS-B as that would be an interesting development.
It is currently undergoing trials at LOAN. Diamond have just got EASA certification to increase MTOW of the DA42M to 1995kg (previously 1900kg) and have got an increase in MZFW and max tail ballast, so the nose payload can now be increased enough to theoretically carry the MTS-B on the nose, and still fly with full mission fuel.
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 20:04
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Trim

That is good news as the MTS-B is a cracking sensor when used in HD. If you get a tracking satellite antenna onto the DA42 to give a beyond line of sight (BLOS) capability for the picture dissemination then that will be a cracking capability.

LJ
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 20:45
  #67 (permalink)  
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According to the Cambridge dictionary:

Drone (n) - a type of aircraft that does not have a pilot but is controlled by someone on the ground.

According to the Oxford dictionary:

Drone (n) - a remote-controlled pilotless aircraft or missile.

Journos please note - your use of the word drone is entirely correct!
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 20:53
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Another drone down

there we were at 33000ft fantastic weather unlimited vis except for 1 big nasty isolated cu nim over the distant mountain range.

Oh dear Predator flies in to it and crashes!

Can they fly in bad weather or was this just a one off??
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 21:27
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DRONE. A drone is a collective name for pilotless aircraft. But original meaning was and is 'the male of the honeybee and other bees'. This particular kind of the insect through clear associations was connected with such notions as 'one who lives on the labor of others', 'an idler', 'a sluggard'.

These associations underlie the transfer of the meaning to an aircraft which was steered by remote control without a pilot. Initially, pilotless aircraft were used as air targets for training AA gun crews. These targets were marked with black stripes along the tail part of the fuselage. These stripes looked like those of a drone (the insect). Hence, the nickname. Nowadays pilotless aircraft are distinguished as drones and RPVs (remotely-piloted vehicles). Drones are program-guided while RPVs are piloted from a distance by operators. It is curious to know that bomber air crews called jokingly air gunners 'drones'. Probably because air gunners were idle during flights and had only lots of things to do when firing at enemy fighters.
Seems way more detail in other references than a dictionary. I believe that etymology requires proof of first use and that use in the 30s by the USN looks like precedence to me?

LJ
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 21:30
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beagle (n.)
late 15c., of unknown origin, possibly from French becguele "noisy person," literally "gaping throat," from bayer "open wide" (see bay (n.2)) + gueule "mouth" (see gullet).
Seems rather apt. Never had you down as garlic muncher, old chap?

LJ
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Old 18th Nov 2013, 21:57
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I believe the name 'drone' has its roots in the creation of DH Queen Bees in 1935 for the RN. Over time, somehow, (perhaps the follow on aircraft were nicknamed drones, since they came after the Queen Bees) the name has stuck. The Queen Bees were radio controlled targets.
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Old 19th Nov 2013, 21:33
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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Hangarshuffle, you need to go back and look up what war is about. These armed "drones" are machines of war, just as a Vulcan was. What you don't appear to understand in your huggy fluffy spew is that war has never been a rugby match, and is a use of force to achieve an end. The nature of the world has changed since the obsession with rules in war became the norm, but the rules that were finally adopted seem resistant to change.

I will also note that the Empire is no more.

It's a new world, get out of your old box.
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Old 20th Nov 2013, 00:31
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Drone - ok

UAV - ok

RPAS - ok, if you really must

UAS - Useless term. Try looking for a job with 'UAS' as a search criteria, and you will get 100 jobs listed, through which you will then have to sift to find the one or two which relate to UAVs or drones*. Every military aircraft needs ground equipment and support in one form or another, so why should unmanned aircraft have to be called 'systems'?

* Or in UK aviation journals & websites, anything to do students getting flying on the cheap, if the propellers can stay on for long enough.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 09:36
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If you get a tracking satellite antenna onto the DA42 to give a beyond line of sight (BLOS) capability for the picture dissemination then that will be a cracking capability.
High bandwidth HD-video capable satellite BLOS uplink for DA42M is already available:

Successful Maiden Flight Of Diamond DA42 MPP Installed With Ku-Band Satcom

I think the most significant development is that the link is duplex, meaning the camera operator can stay on the ground, saving significant payload weight.

Last edited by Trim Stab; 4th Dec 2013 at 09:47.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 09:49
  #75 (permalink)  

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They can always get Amazon to deliver another drone.....by drone.
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Old 4th Dec 2013, 10:56
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The more those who excitably object to the use of the word drone do so, the more some of us are likely to continue to use the term.

Besides, it's quite clear that the precise role of a drone is contextual, and not limited by a (useful) descriptor that everyone, whether serving or civvy, can grasp. Making up pompous military terminology (UAS,RPAS) reflects badly on those who do so. I guess it got some t**t promoted though.
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Old 18th Dec 2013, 11:19
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Interesting article on sky news this morning, here is the site version:

Reaper Attack HQ: Rare Access To Top Secret Site


Interesting that on the tv vid the guy in the r/h seat is Master Aircrew.
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Old 18th Dec 2013, 11:36
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So, despite an extensive MOD Press Release "to dispel any myths" which specifically points out how and why these are not 'drones', the press still insist on referring to the whole set up as..... drones.

Sometimes wonder why they bother
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Old 18th Dec 2013, 12:58
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Grow Bags

Just seen the Daily Mail article. Why do the drone pilots/operators wear flying suits? We went through this on 10 Sqn when we started this 'pick your fuel up in the air' thing. Those involved wanted to wear flying kit! In 16 years I only wore a grow bag in initial training or for exercises and war the latter was over no.2s. FJ, helios, or grubby aircraft or job OK but sitting at a computer console - come on!

Last edited by Exascot; 18th Dec 2013 at 13:16.
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Old 18th Dec 2013, 13:26
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At the risk of thread drift, there's a DH Queen Bee at Henlow, back with dual controls but the LE slats either omitted or locked (can't remember which)

PM
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