Aircrew knife - HELP!!
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Sneaking up on the Runway and leaping out to grab it unawares
Cough
Sorry, members of SODCAT......
Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Southern Europe
No need to, Mate. That's what the infallible RAF Police security is for. I only managed to get an unlicensed firearm past them once in my life - even though it was in a box with a big Day-Glo tag on it stating "Unloaded Firearm" that came in on the Brize baggage carousel.
That's how good they are.
That's how good they are.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
The only knife I had was the one out of a seat with a fold out blade, can opener and flat screwdriver built in, the one with no grips on it. Still have it 
Suprised if they went with the pure strap cutter design above in Coffs post they never made it truly multifunctional like this, it would make a lot of sense.
Sheffield Moab Folding Rescue Knife, pocket knife, car escape tool, car escape knife, folding pocket knife, seatbelt cutter
Suprised if they went with the pure strap cutter design above in Coffs post they never made it truly multifunctional like this, it would make a lot of sense.
Sheffield Moab Folding Rescue Knife, pocket knife, car escape tool, car escape knife, folding pocket knife, seatbelt cutter
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: Canada
Dinghy knives and the like. We were issued the curvedy-blade job shown in post #5 , with orange sheath, std issue, when i started flying training in 1972 odd. Later obtained the straight blade version from a friendly squipper after I donated 5 quid to their coffee fund. It still adorns my retired flying suit.
In training I carried a WW2 commando dagger inside my flying suit and a boy scout clasp knife in my ankle pocket, with other survival stuff. When training was over, I grew up and retired the Fairbairn dagger.
In training I carried a WW2 commando dagger inside my flying suit and a boy scout clasp knife in my ankle pocket, with other survival stuff. When training was over, I grew up and retired the Fairbairn dagger.
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Newcastle Upon Tyne
I've only once heard of the knife being used for its intended purpose, cutting rigging lines and the like. On that occassion the gent in question who was, I'm sure still a bit disorientated after going from his cosy F3 to the North Sea in about a minute, managed to also hack his dinghy canopy to bits.
I always thought that a cutter like in Coffs image was better. It holds what you're cutting which would help loads with cold wet slippery hands.
Posted from Pprune.org App for Android
I always thought that a cutter like in Coffs image was better. It holds what you're cutting which would help loads with cold wet slippery hands.
Posted from Pprune.org App for Android
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Gold Coast, Australia
well, in the 1970's, we used to carry an aircrew knife that had a straight blade on it. This was the preferred style. However, it was decided that in order to avoid puncturing the dingy and to aid skinning when in survival mode that it should be relaced with this one (around the mid to late 80's).
The change from straight to curved blade occurred sometime in the early '70's: I still have mine from 1975 and it's a curved blade with a nice stabbing tip! The original knife patch (sewn onto the ovies) was a dull yellow/orange, unlike the green one in the photo.
Then again I still have a Mk 2a bonedome plus varied other rabbits.... which I find impossible to turf out, despite being quite useless and taking up too much space!
Joined: May 2000
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From: UK
My twopenneth on aircrew knives:
Latest Mk1 is by far the best for what it is designed for: cutting seat straps, parachute straps and rigging lines. However, as a knife in survival it is plain sh!te.
Older curved types were as already stated: clunky, normally blunt when you wanted to use it and also sod all use in a survival situation. I was once stopped at Cardiff Airport by Security having diverted into there in a live Q jet - I had to give up the curved knife to go and make a phone call, even after protesting that the Queen trusted me to fly 8 missiles and 170 rounds of ball and tracer around the UK, would it not be ok to carry a pants knife??? I ended up surrendering the knife!
As to suggestions: I would suggest a j-knife in the same way as the current Mk1 cutter but with a longer, retractable and lockable blade for survival purposes (and stabbing the stole of your LSJ if you need to).
LJ
Latest Mk1 is by far the best for what it is designed for: cutting seat straps, parachute straps and rigging lines. However, as a knife in survival it is plain sh!te.
Older curved types were as already stated: clunky, normally blunt when you wanted to use it and also sod all use in a survival situation. I was once stopped at Cardiff Airport by Security having diverted into there in a live Q jet - I had to give up the curved knife to go and make a phone call, even after protesting that the Queen trusted me to fly 8 missiles and 170 rounds of ball and tracer around the UK, would it not be ok to carry a pants knife??? I ended up surrendering the knife!
As to suggestions: I would suggest a j-knife in the same way as the current Mk1 cutter but with a longer, retractable and lockable blade for survival purposes (and stabbing the stole of your LSJ if you need to).
LJ
Joined: Nov 2012
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From: UK East Anglia
Basil,
I think you have chosen a difficult assignment. As you will have noted from the above comments how contentious this matter is.
I was only an occasional flyer (observer on trials) I consider myself quite disciplined. My knife was secured in its clip with a red tell tale thread. I was told never to get it out unless it was essential. I just trusted the briefing I received that it would cut harnesses and cord should the need arise.
When the small J knife was introduced there was great reluctance towards it. One specialist group of people at Lyenham at the time (Air Despatch) had dispensation to have both types (one on each leg) they claimed the need to routinely use the standard issue knife in pursuit of their duties. most of them used their own personal choice of "weapon" anyway but were aware of the "rules" on tool control. A far better tool for their job was what was known as the Air Sea Rescue knife. A very chunky J knife with a T handle. the blade was like a Stanley blade in the little cutter but much thicker (you will find one of these in each HUPRA pack - for cutting static lines - see the reluctant parachutist thread). Unfortunately it was not practical for these to be attached to your grow bag leg. They really would bruise you as reported above on Sentry.
I believe there is a proper Swiss army knife in each seat survival pack. You could probably but one for £25 from Millets. we paid £70 as they had the NATO code marked on them making them proprietary to one particular supplier who held the type record for the engraving of the NATO stock code (yes we went to such stupid lengths to maintain configuration control- I know you could not make it up and I never supported this). Of course these were P&L class stores and the number was engraved to stop folks nicking them. It would have been far cheaper to give every member of the Armed Services two each when they signed on.
I hear the Apache crews do not have a personal cutter but there may be a heavy duty one strategically placed on the door frame (not sure if this is true)
I did not know the Eurofighter escape parachute lines were that exotic. I know the brake chute is. We had some even tougher reefing cords to cut to sequence the deployment of some stores parachutes which needed a pyrotechnic (explosive charge) to cut through they really were that tough.
Best of luck with your studies. However I do think this issue would be more suited to someone studying psychology rather than aeronautics. How about a study on the effect on directional stability of all the sat com aerials on top of the new Rivet Joint.
I think you have chosen a difficult assignment. As you will have noted from the above comments how contentious this matter is.
I was only an occasional flyer (observer on trials) I consider myself quite disciplined. My knife was secured in its clip with a red tell tale thread. I was told never to get it out unless it was essential. I just trusted the briefing I received that it would cut harnesses and cord should the need arise.
When the small J knife was introduced there was great reluctance towards it. One specialist group of people at Lyenham at the time (Air Despatch) had dispensation to have both types (one on each leg) they claimed the need to routinely use the standard issue knife in pursuit of their duties. most of them used their own personal choice of "weapon" anyway but were aware of the "rules" on tool control. A far better tool for their job was what was known as the Air Sea Rescue knife. A very chunky J knife with a T handle. the blade was like a Stanley blade in the little cutter but much thicker (you will find one of these in each HUPRA pack - for cutting static lines - see the reluctant parachutist thread). Unfortunately it was not practical for these to be attached to your grow bag leg. They really would bruise you as reported above on Sentry.
I believe there is a proper Swiss army knife in each seat survival pack. You could probably but one for £25 from Millets. we paid £70 as they had the NATO code marked on them making them proprietary to one particular supplier who held the type record for the engraving of the NATO stock code (yes we went to such stupid lengths to maintain configuration control- I know you could not make it up and I never supported this). Of course these were P&L class stores and the number was engraved to stop folks nicking them. It would have been far cheaper to give every member of the Armed Services two each when they signed on.
I hear the Apache crews do not have a personal cutter but there may be a heavy duty one strategically placed on the door frame (not sure if this is true)
I did not know the Eurofighter escape parachute lines were that exotic. I know the brake chute is. We had some even tougher reefing cords to cut to sequence the deployment of some stores parachutes which needed a pyrotechnic (explosive charge) to cut through they really were that tough.
Best of luck with your studies. However I do think this issue would be more suited to someone studying psychology rather than aeronautics. How about a study on the effect on directional stability of all the sat com aerials on top of the new Rivet Joint.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: Kammbronn
Carrying a knife, non-ferocious in the event that the harness box jammed seemed a bit pointless when you could simply unfold the velcro-secured end of the strap and pull it through the adjuster, and without the fear of poking yourself in the eye with a blunt instrument.
Joined: Sep 2008
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From: South Africa
DCTYKE
We all appreciated the foreign object problems, but carring a pocket knife wasn't against the rules in my day.
We also each had our own toolkits.
There were several different schemes tried to identify the users of tools. Even to the extent of engraving each item in a toolkit.
The communal tools and shadow boards were being experimented with in ASF, but not on the sqdns.
Carrying personal knives (or tools) whilst working on an AC is an accident waiting to happen, as well as breaking regs.
We also each had our own toolkits.
There were several different schemes tried to identify the users of tools. Even to the extent of engraving each item in a toolkit.
The communal tools and shadow boards were being experimented with in ASF, but not on the sqdns.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Falling off the end of the thread
And Civi wise you have your own tools. Trust me the best form of tool control is having to pay for them, trust me loosing a screwdriver at over £60 a pop makes sure you don't.
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Times change, I wouldn't even think of taking my own knife out to a jet. The first thing we did on being called out to a snag was empty our pockets. As for our tools, even the needles were accounted for on the shadow board. I grew up with that system so I accepted it as just being the way it always was.
Joined: Jul 1999
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From: Warrington, UK
Carrying a knife, non-ferocious in the event that the harness box jammed seemed a bit pointless when you could simply unfold the velcro-secured end of the strap and pull it through the adjuster, and without the fear of poking yourself in the eye with a blunt instrument.
