Cold War, Hot Jets BBC2 2100 Friday
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Some aircraft had routes that were sufficiently short so they could recover direct but most had recovery bases in Norway, Denmark and Turkey.
Certainly in the 50s and early 60s crews carried the addresses and telephone numbers for the embassies on each country and were instructed to phone home. I think the expectation early on was that the nuclear strike would not have been an absolute as overkill had yet to be established.
They were quite right that nuclear gave more bang for the buck, who could argue at £1/ton?
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IIRC that was a film clip of a QB17 shot down by a Nike test vehicle
The clip is also used during the "World At War" series so it has been in the public domain for quite a while.
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plotters with a previous Canberra tour or more.
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Pontius
No offence Pontius, but as a non V force guy I couldnt resist the wind-up!
the V-force was well on the way to becoming a routine assignment with first tour captains, copilots made up to captains and general talk of dilution
Noticed my old S Cerney V-Force Nav Flight Commander and also a well known ex Lightning Air Commodore.
Someone mentioned 'Head East', or something similar, as a final release. Without going into detail, ISTR that the bombers could be recalled at any time.
Someone mentioned 'Head East', or something similar, as a final release. Without going into detail, ISTR that the bombers could be recalled at any time.
I heard that as "8 East", which I took to mean longitude 8 degrees East as the point after which the attack was irrevocable.
But I am sure P-N or others can confirm.
Are you referring to Aubrey Clayphan, Basil? He became a flight commander on Victor tankers and famously ejected and commandeered the air conditioned room of a gobby shiny fleet loadmaster who unwisely made a remark about "tankertrash" as a tanker crew were making their way to their non air-conditioned rooms at Akrotiri!
Edited to say thanks t7a - you got the confirmation in before I posted it!
But I am sure P-N or others can confirm.
Are you referring to Aubrey Clayphan, Basil? He became a flight commander on Victor tankers and famously ejected and commandeered the air conditioned room of a gobby shiny fleet loadmaster who unwisely made a remark about "tankertrash" as a tanker crew were making their way to their non air-conditioned rooms at Akrotiri!
Edited to say thanks t7a - you got the confirmation in before I posted it!
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What happened to 558? All we saw was the forlorn and forgotten Woodford Vulcan. They should have also covered the loss of the Vulcan over Syerston and the leading edge mod.
Then of course there is the last ever flight of the Victor in 2009..
t7a and Tankertrashnav,
Ah, "eight east" - thank you. Won't mention to SWMBO or I'll get even more flack about my auditory perception
That's Aubrey! 
Ah, "eight east" - thank you. Won't mention to SWMBO or I'll get even more flack about my auditory perception
famously ejected and commandeered the air conditioned room of a gobby shiny fleet loadmaster
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t7a/TTN,
Quite right. I can't recall where it was for Cyprus however
During flight to dispersal after declaration of alert condition 1 crews not only remained radio silent but were instructed to have all radios switched off 'to avoid getting confusing messages'. On the dispersal flight the weapon could not be dropped live and there was insufficient fuel for a war mission.
One confusion could be hearing the QRA and main base aircraft being scrambled. The other, slightly less confusing, could the dawning of the sun in the west etc.
However once cocked and then launched on an authenticated scramble the crews would head east as stated. In the event of not receiving an authenticated go message the instructions were to return to take-off airfield.
Now the Release may have been issued and not received because of jamming or the transmitters being destroyed or indeed the command centres destroyed before the release was authorised.
There were, as far as I know, no instructions on what to do if on returning west you saw only a nuclear holocaust. Would you do as in Doctor Strangelove and retaliate or would you obey orders to the end, reach the UK, and then . . .
Quite right. I can't recall where it was for Cyprus however
During flight to dispersal after declaration of alert condition 1 crews not only remained radio silent but were instructed to have all radios switched off 'to avoid getting confusing messages'. On the dispersal flight the weapon could not be dropped live and there was insufficient fuel for a war mission.
One confusion could be hearing the QRA and main base aircraft being scrambled. The other, slightly less confusing, could the dawning of the sun in the west etc.
However once cocked and then launched on an authenticated scramble the crews would head east as stated. In the event of not receiving an authenticated go message the instructions were to return to take-off airfield.
Now the Release may have been issued and not received because of jamming or the transmitters being destroyed or indeed the command centres destroyed before the release was authorised.
There were, as far as I know, no instructions on what to do if on returning west you saw only a nuclear holocaust. Would you do as in Doctor Strangelove and retaliate or would you obey orders to the end, reach the UK, and then . . .
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Just watched on iPlayer ... very good I thought
Well done Tom Moriarty ...
Tom's original request for PPRuNe help
Well done Tom Moriarty ...
Tom's original request for PPRuNe help
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There would certainly have been scope for another 2 parts. Aside from the passing references to the USAF other noticeable bits that were either not mentioned or merely skipped over were the Hunters and Javelins the backbone of the UK Air Defence before the Lightning, the Sea Vixen, Buccaneer and Scimitar for maritime, the VC10! Then later Air Defence with the F4 and attack with Jaguar, Harrier, Buccaneer.
I suppose, looking in the round, the first part was the British leadership in jet engines and then it was concentrated on design with the attack and defence aspects of the Cold War with our nuclear deterrent and the associated air defence on the one hand and the Russian on the other.
I suppose, looking in the round, the first part was the British leadership in jet engines and then it was concentrated on design with the attack and defence aspects of the Cold War with our nuclear deterrent and the associated air defence on the one hand and the Russian on the other.
Thread Starter
I thought it was rather good.
Agree partly about TSR2, though there is still the fact that it did spell a particularly sharp downturn in UK aerospace - perhaps they was room for de-scoping the rather extreme requirements and carrying on, as opposed to complete cancellation.
Given the depth of knowledge of many prruners it was actually quite accurate. I think you can forgive the Lincoln / B17 footage - they were showing what was available. The only bit that counted as unfortunate footage for me was the introductory narrative on ICBMs, then cutting to a picture of a Nike/Hercules SAM, though it did quickly show a Thor soon after.
Interesting to see a Blue Steel drop, never seen that. I looked to see if there is any Blue Steel launch/rocket start footage on the net, but could find none. I wonder if there is actually no footage out there?
Always good to see some shiney Lightnings of course.
Agree partly about TSR2, though there is still the fact that it did spell a particularly sharp downturn in UK aerospace - perhaps they was room for de-scoping the rather extreme requirements and carrying on, as opposed to complete cancellation.
Given the depth of knowledge of many prruners it was actually quite accurate. I think you can forgive the Lincoln / B17 footage - they were showing what was available. The only bit that counted as unfortunate footage for me was the introductory narrative on ICBMs, then cutting to a picture of a Nike/Hercules SAM, though it did quickly show a Thor soon after.
Interesting to see a Blue Steel drop, never seen that. I looked to see if there is any Blue Steel launch/rocket start footage on the net, but could find none. I wonder if there is actually no footage out there?
Always good to see some shiney Lightnings of course.
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As in part 1 it was truly dreadful. That piece where both he and Churchill were talking out of synch was offensive. No mention of tactical nuclear or even the Short Sperrin but I'm not surprised. The series is simply inept. Again more inappropriate footage. I suppose the BBC consider him to be one of their rising stars.....
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Rose, I think you are too harsh.
I think I can detect the dead hand of bureaucracy here. 'Sorry old boy, just not enough interest for more than a couple of parts, keep it down to under two hours, OK?'
The scope was huge and while we experts can criticise the addition of this or the exclusion of that, I think on balance it was a brave effort pulling in much rare footage.
Yes, we would have done it differently, but would we have done it better?
I think I can detect the dead hand of bureaucracy here. 'Sorry old boy, just not enough interest for more than a couple of parts, keep it down to under two hours, OK?'
The scope was huge and while we experts can criticise the addition of this or the exclusion of that, I think on balance it was a brave effort pulling in much rare footage.
Yes, we would have done it differently, but would we have done it better?
Thread Starter
Rose, I fear you are far too harsh.
It seems fairly sure your version would have been too dull & detailed for the masses, which at the end of the day is who this is aimed at.
I'd love to see more niche programmes however, such as "history of air drop since WW2" or similar. A programme covering the technologies, operations, mishaps, people etc, would work well.
It seems fairly sure your version would have been too dull & detailed for the masses, which at the end of the day is who this is aimed at.
I'd love to see more niche programmes however, such as "history of air drop since WW2" or similar. A programme covering the technologies, operations, mishaps, people etc, would work well.